Controversial post - the value of trainers

[nuggetdotcom]

Hi All,

During a foray in the early noughties of sponsoring a pro fighter, losing money, and meeting loads of boxing greats, I had many discussions about the value of a boxing 'trainer'. The consensus was basically that boxers, like footballers, golfers etc. are born not made, you've got it, or you ain't.

Any silly sod in Lycra can run around the park with a boxer to keep him 'fit', but if a true boxer doesn't know he needs to do that, then he's not really in the game. Why should a boxer pay thousands to a so-called 'trainer' just to run around the park with him, when he could just get Lycra Leroy for £10 an hour from a local gym? Or just work it out for himself?

If all 'trainers' do is keep boxers fit then that's a pretty poor statement on boxers own professionalism, they surely know they have to be fit to pursue the sport?

As regards gym work then the sight of a 60 odd year old doing pads with a young pro is just as ridiculous as Sam Allardyce or Roy Hodgson donning tracksuits to risk injury to multi-million pound footballers trying to teach them how to play.

Last Saturdays events with EU JR brought the 'trainer' debate in to focus, what EU needed in his corner was an experienced eye who could tell him how to react to ongoing fight situations, wether that man be called a 'trainer' on x% of the purse, or just a friendly free advisor, is the issue. EU Snr was clearly not up to the job, so that basically says that such and advisor need not necessarily be an ex-pro.

Sorry to sit on the fence

[powerpuncher]

I think that trainers do more than just “train.” I think that most people need somebody to help them schedule out their workouts. The trainer makes sure that when the fighter comes to camp, he doesn’t have to worry about what is going on. If trainers weren’t important then no higher skilled professional would ever switch trainers.

I do think that there are exceptional fighters who are good regardless of their trainers which gives their trainers more credit than deserved (Roach for example), but there are some trainers who I think get maximum potential out of good fighters (Garcia for example).

[Master]

Trainers are important especially if you want to get to the highest level.

Fathers as trainers can work Joe Calzaghe is the best example of that but more often than not they fail.

Good experienced trainers can cost but it works itself out as you will be successful and can afford to pay them. Money sometimes gets in the way of the relationship between a fighter and a trainer Naz with Ingle, Hatton with Graham.

Sometimes a change in trainer can be good Lennox and Wlad joining Emmanuel Steward changed them completely. Hope Scott Quigg has success with the change in trainer and camp.

[Primo Carnera]

Trainers are important especially if you want to get to the highest level.

Fathers as trainers can work Joe Calzaghe is the best example of that but more often than not they fail.

Good experienced trainers can cost but it works itself out as you will be successful and can afford to pay them. Money sometimes gets in the way of the relationship between a fighter and a trainer Naz with Ingle, Hatton with Graham.

Sometimes a change in trainer can be good Lennox and Wlad joining Emmanuel Steward changed them completely. Hope Scott Quigg has success with the change in trainer and camp.

Aren't you (Deliberately) forgetting another fine example? I'll give you a clue. Fl**d

[Primo Carnera]

I think you're looking at this only with part of a Coach/Trainers role . i.e. Getting the athlete fit.
Their role encapsulates far more than that. It's a pair of eyes seeing what you cannot see in the heat of the battle and because you are looking from the outside in, you can maybe see a solution .
a lot of athletes are just that, but they're not necessarily the greatest thinkers.
It's one thing knowing what to do , but it's another being able to explain to other people exactly that. Man management is a key aspect of any coaching.
This is also why the greatest athletes don't always make the greatest trainers/coaches.
And as far as last Saturday goes, it was basically a case of the blind leading the blind!

[greynotsoold]

There is no such thing as a 'natural' fighter. Some pick it up quicker than others but, behind every 'natural', there is somebody that invested thousands of hours into teaching them. Like Floyd; his 'natural' ability is the result of knowledgeable people teaching him about boxing from the day he was born.

On the other hand, there are numerous buffoons with punch mitts that don't know anything about boxing. And equally as many that are top notch at getting guys into shape to fight but have no clue about teaching them to fight. These guys will have success to a point and be highly esteemed because most people- even boxing people- don't know much if anything about how boxing is done, from the thought process to the mechanics of it all.

[Memphis]

It's horses for courses. In some instances the trainer is essentially redundant, Joe Calzaghe is always a good example. No disrespect to Enzo but Joe could have been trained by a chimp and still been brilliant. Success breeds success and Enzo had some with Rees, Maccarinelli, there maybe a couple more I'm forgetting. You wouldn't say Enzo was a great trainer. He worked his fighters hard and gave them everything but his boxing acumen was lacking.

Lewis and Klitschko had impeccable fits with Manny. Both started out as aggressive fighters, both got chinned, both went on to utilise the Steward tall fighter template to great effect. Both very smart men, who would have thunk it.

The apple never falls far from the tree and Eubank Senior wasn't a great trainer or listener. People call for Eubank Sr to step back and promote Ronnie Davies from grease boy to 'head' trainer. I'm not sure how that helps. No disrespect to Davies but I don't ever remember him working wonders for the old man, he was 'there' and gave Sr a pantomime slap around the face on cue. Davies must have been softened by time and his place in the Eubank circus, I wouldn't hold much hope of Jr paying any attention to him, not now.

People, fighters, are born with mental and physical gifts that make them predisposed to a particular sport or pursuit with little refinement required. But it doesn't cover everything.

The trainers job is to build a boxer from the ground up. Teach all the things that can be taught, the jab, the cross, the hook and uppercut, then make them work seamlessly. Footwork, defence, discipline and fitness. Impart experience, wisdom, praise and criticism when required, to tell the truth. When you've done all those things, you might just find success, but it's not guaranteed.

[Primo Carnera]

It's horses for courses. In some instances the trainer is essentially redundant, Joe Calzaghe is always a good example. No disrespect to Enzo but Joe could have been trained by a chimp and still been brilliant. Success breeds success and Enzo had some with Rees, Maccarinelli, there maybe a couple more I'm forgetting. You wouldn't say Enzo was a great trainer. He worked his fighters hard and gave them everything but his boxing acumen was lacking.

Lewis and Klitschko had impeccable fits with Manny. Both started out as aggressive fighters, both got chinned, both went on to utilise the Steward tall fighter template to great effect. Both very smart men, who would have thunk it.

The apple never falls far from the tree and Eubank Senior wasn't a great trainer or listener. People call for Eubank Sr to step back and promote Ronnie Davies from grease boy to 'head' trainer. I'm not sure how that helps. No disrespect to Davies but I don't ever remember him working wonders for the old man, he was 'there' and gave Sr a pantomime slap around the face on cue. Davies must have been softened by time and his place in the Eubank circus, I wouldn't hold much hope of Jr paying any attention to him, not now.

People, fighters, are born with mental and physical gifts that make them predisposed to a particular sport or pursuit with little refinement required. But it doesn't cover everything.

The trainers job is to build a boxer from the ground up. Teach all the things that can be taught, the jab, the cross, the hook and uppercut, then make them work seamlessly. Footwork, defence, discipline and fitness. Impart experience, wisdom, praise and criticism when required, to tell the truth. When you've done all those things, you might just find success, but it's not guaranteed.

I hear what you're saying about Enzo Calzaghe and I understand about Success breeding Success, but I still think you're doing him a little disservice.
He had about 4 World champions and other guys that picked up titles. I think that because he didn't have a massive boxing background or "Pedigree" , people assume that he didn't know much. I think sometimes people work hard at learning their art and get there . Shane McGuigan is an example of a very studious trainer and in soccer , Mourinho started as a club translator.
I'm not saying you can get everything from books, I think it's how you man manage and get that point over .
the thing with Enzo's stable , is that you have guys like Enzo Maccarinelli and Gary Lockett that talk very knowledgeably about boxing, and they must've picked some of that up through Enzo Calzaghe I believe.