Was Mahatma Gandhi a racist?

[Beanz]

it's true that homo sapiens is all the same but I think we can just not be pedantic and instead of saying race here we should use ethnicity which I think the study did use the word ethnicity so therefore there's nothing wrong with these conclusions

Not really you can't start a game and then halfway through move the goalposts. That is why nothing is ever resolved here. If we were more rigorous who knows while we are never going to bring world peace we could at least some people how to use a fork and others the importance of not putting their hand down their pants in public places.

They are not the same thing. You can have Armenian, Italian, Semitic and Indian roots, but when people talk about racism it is never that sophisticated or reflective of the complexity that is the reality of our lives. It's always on race as the bogeyman, and putting you into that camp based on your appearance. "You Robbing Black Bastard" may have little to do with calling all black people thieves but it is a racist expression in that it uses a group you appear to belong to give you another slap for good measure. Don't believe Psychologists who tell you implicit bias predicts behaviour in the real world for they are pretending that human beings operate in a vacuum and are mostly a bit thick, pretentious, judgmental, or are loons to be honest.

In the real world no racist is going to say "You robbing Armenian, Italian, Semitic, Indian Bastard" . It proves that Race does not exist. Nobody says "You dirty smelly mixed race cunt" do they? They use ignorant words based on a perceived difference in skin colour or what they resume is you country of origin.

Also there is no such thing as verifiable psychological studies. Or white people. We are all mixed race even Tommy Robinson and his tribe of Gammon heads.

Beanz I almost fear writing this but what is your issue with the psych field. I have seen many people with serious issues have functioning greatly improved by CBT and other treatments. I’m just curious if you had a bad personal experience or you just react to what you have read and heard and are looking at it only with an external viewpoint. Please note I’m not calling u a cunt I’m just curious. If I hadn’t seen it work and help people I wouldn’t be asking.

Check out the Psychology thread

[brocktonblockbust]

It's sure that we are all mixed race but you can't tell me that Tony Blair looks the same as Michael Jordan

[Master]

It's sure that we are all mixed race but you can't tell me that Tony Blair looks the same as Michael Jordan

Never judge a book by it's cover

[brocktonblockbust]

It's sure that we are all mixed race but you can't tell me that Tony Blair looks the same as Michael Jordan

Never judge a book by it's cover

bwaaaaHAHAHA yes good one 😀

[Beanz]

It's sure that we are all mixed race but you can't tell me that Tony Blair looks the same as Michael Jordan

uh..well that is kind of the point. Racism is a very superficial prejudice mainly based on the fact that someone does not look like you based on some vague idea that that means they were born somewhere, will act someway, will think someway etc

I am not saying that groups of people can not share differences but to attribute race based generalities etc is actually denying that.

[Gandalf]

If race does not exist then why do my medical reports list me as caucasian? When police hunt a murder suspect I am sure they don't just say 'All murder suspects are mixed race'. They go on height, hair color, and RACE amongst other things. Race exists and it is silly to deny it. I don't think the Japanese mostly think of themselves as black or white though obvious exceptions exist of course as in the likes of Naomi Osaka who is tricking people really as it is her Mum's name and she can barely even speak Japanese.

[brocktonblockbust]

Race exists and there are differences between the races physically mentally intellectually Etc

And I don't know why we're not allowed to like whatever those attributes are and why we have to be labeled a word called racism

[TitoFan]

Such a HANGUP over the word "racism", for crying out loud.

Brock, saying you don't like black people's kinky hair is not racist.

Saying you don't like black people period because they're inferior to you IS racist.

WTH is so hard to understand about that?

Being racist is not the end of the world. It just denotes ignorance and unwarranted hate toward a group of people.



BTW, I also believe races exist. I don't understand the opposite argument. Races exist, ethnic backgrounds exist. But as humans mix more and more, differences will become blurred over time. Eventually that will probably be the only way to get rid of racism altogether...... when we're all so mixed up it'll just be one big pot of brownish, wavy-haired, lookalikes.

[TitoFan]

BTW, continuing to claim differences in intelligence due to races is racist, IMO. Just read a very good article about Eastern Asian culture and assimilation in the States, and it correctly states that the fact you have so many over-achieving students and professionals from Eastern Asia in the States, percentage-wise, is mainly due to parental influence and a push toward education in specific fields. It's not because their DNA somehow makes them smarter than other races. That is preposterous and ridiculous.

[Gandalf]

That is debatable Tito. I think the differences are real but the reasons aren't completely known. However, you are right there is a lot of focus on education. Many asian students have a firmer theoretical understanding of English grammar than the Brits do for example. They are better at maths and sciences. It's the same in all East Asian countries. Very smart people. IQ difference between races is factual and I don't think that is racist. It should be a kick up the bum to whites and blacks to sort themselves out and aspire hire. If me and Beanz can achieve distinctions in Masters or Undergraduate programmes despite warped childhoods then so can others. I don't feel inferior. It just makes me want to study harder. It can be a motivating force rather than a means for division. I've nothing against anybody of any color and especially if they are doing their best. It's all you can do. Plenty of smart people of every race out there, but the stats are what they are. Very few of us in any race are going to be Einsteinian anyway.

[Gandalf]

-5IQ miles....hire! 😃

[TitoFan]

That is debatable Tito. I think the differences are real but the reasons aren't completely known. However, you are right there is a lot of focus on education. Many asian students have a firmer theoretical understanding of English grammar than the Brits do for example. They are better at maths and sciences. It's the same in all East Asian countries. Very smart people. IQ difference between races is factual and I don't think that is racist. It should be a kick up the bum to whites and blacks to sort themselves out and aspire hire. If me and Beanz can achieve distinctions in Masters or Undergraduate programmes despite warped childhoods then so can others. I don't feel inferior. It just makes me want to study harder. It can be a motivating force rather than a means for division. I've nothing against anybody of any color and especially if they are doing their best. It's all you can do. Plenty of smart people of every race out there, but the stats are what they are. Very few of us in any race are going to be Einsteinian anyway.

If my parents ingrain the importance of education in me, and pretty much encourage/force me to get a college degree, I'm naturally going to have more knowledge and do better at IQ tests than Joe Blow across the street whose parents were dope addicts and couldn't care less whether their son went to school or not. They'll tell him to be street-smart, and forget all this college nonsense. Multiply that times thousands and thousands, and some people will be making up generalities supposedly associated with racial DNA.

[brocktonblockbust]

]Tito with all due respect and little ginger aside that argument you just made about the bums across the street on drugs as opposed to other parents encouraging kids to go to college and be professional only makes sense when looking at a very small let's say microcosm/neighborhood or a city in a certain culture.

How about this my friend? How about the people in Congo or in Brazil as opposed to the people in Belgium or in Finland? How come the people in Belgium and Finland all have extremely high literacy and college degrees and the people in Congo and Brazil are peasant illiterate and ignorant?

are you saying that we cannot make the statement that the white people in Belgium and Finland had more sense let's say or had more Focus let's say on sending their kids to University and that the people in Brazil and in the Congo and in Cameroon and in Malawi and in Angola did not have the same intelligence? why didn't those people in Cameroon and in Congo for example build universities and take part in scientific and mathematical and philosophical establishment of educational institutions on par with Europe?

Can that all be just explained away by blaming white people? Hell there are some places in the world that white people believe it or not have not yet gone to to conquer or to colonize so what then would be the excuse for those native indigenous people who cannot now blame white people?

[TitoFan]

Brock it's not about blaming anyone, much less white people. It's when we try and assign blame where none is assignable that arguments fall apart. Break down my argument into its essence. It's not all encouraging parents vs non-encouraging ones. It's about circumstances. Surely you realize people from Belgium and Finland have more opportunities just being born than people (generally) in the Congo or Angola. Does that make them dumber or with lower IQ because they're black or African or whatever other label we want to assign to them? No. We're all born pretty much anatomically the same, but in various models. Some white... some black... some with round eyes... other with slanted ones. But we're born into circumstances, the reality of our lives. Then we have parental influence. Motumbo's parents over in Angola probably live meal to meal, and education for little Motumbo is the further thing from their minds, probably not having an education themselves. If Motumbo doesn't adequately pass an IQ test, it's not because he's black or from Angola. It's because of his living circumstances, since the day he was born. IQ tests are largely flawed. There's plenty of literature on that. They fail to take into account numerous factors, including the ability for some people to take tests and do well in them. I studied with brilliant people who did poorly on tests because taking tests was their Achilles heel.

Quit making everything about blame. I prefer to focus on the argument at hand.

[brocktonblockbust]

If you go back to thousand years why would a kid born in Belgium have any advantage over a kid born in Angola? Or let's make it five thousand years. I'm not talking about since the industrial revolution of course a kid born in 1950 in Belgium has an advantage over a kid born in 1950 in Angola. But the whole question has to be asked that before One race started to mess around or colonize with another race how is it that Belgium or Europe was already on the path to scientific discovery and the foundation of educational institutions even 2000 years ago or so thanks to the Romans of course and the Greeks and the Egyptians before them but still Egypt is right there in Africa why wasn't that culture spread around to other parts of Africa? Then you have the philosophers of Greece and a Babylon and Persia all contributing to Scientific breakthroughs. but if you go back a couple of thousand years they were all living poor in the desert just like little motombo

*****JUST LIKE LITTLE MUTOMBO****

so what was the difference then, just random chance?

shall we not be inclined to make sweeping generalizations based on the course of the last three or four thousand years of human history prior to the Industrial Revolution?