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Thread: slickster or textbook style boxer?

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    Default slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Im 18, 135 llbs and I have been training with a new coach a former golden gloves champ in the heavyweight class. He's teaching me to be a textbook kind of fighter but Im more of a elusive and slickster kind of boxer. I feel confident in myself to fight that way and still cover up. What should I do?

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    I'm not a trainer but I can relate to changing coaches and finding they want you to completely change your style.

    I have found new coaches generally have something to add but if you have something that works for you already you don't want to loose that either.

    I'm not sure how your trainings are structured but in my gym we have a reasonable amount of training time when we work independently doing shadow or bag work without being watched too intensely.

    My solution has been to keep practicing my own thing a little to hold onto it but still learn the new stuff.

    There are some things I don't like which I might never pick up and use in a competitive fight but if I've tried them at least I know what I do and don't like.

    I think most coaches might not expect you to be able to learn absolutely everything they have to teach especially if you come from a different background so if you learn some of it you might still keep your new coach happy.

    Of course if you feel he doesn't know his stuff at all you might want to look elsewhere.
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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    thanks . I just want to be able to be the elusive-slick kind of fighter I am while still know when to stand my ground

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    You're welcome - I know the frustration of pleasing a completely different type of coach who will completely transform you.

    I would keep him happy by practicing mostly his stuff any time he's watching then once he knows you listen to him he's probably going to be a bit happier to see you put your own spin on stuff.

    Good luck 
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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    In my opinion you should listen to your trainer..
    Its always more comfortable to fight holding your arms down or by your side but in all fairness.. Its not good for you..

    For one you are too inexperianced to hold your hands down herre.. You dont have the ring savvy yet to be aware of shots coming and all thats going to happen is you'll get caught more often because your gaurd is not up.. Also by having your hands down and not up your loosing punching power..
    By bringing shots up from your hip you arent getting any snap in your shots and just putting your arm out there..Doesnt matter how fast you push the shot out its more like a poke with the glove or sometimes a backhand throwing the jab out there.. Plus when you finish punching your arm will go back down and your completely open for counters when you least expect it..Which just means the punches are just going to hurt more...

    You'll eventually realise that fighting the way the trainer is telling you will benefit you in the long run and get you into good habits..Then once you have experiance under your belt.. Then you can build on your style.. But until then Just keep it nice and simple and keep your hands up..
    Good luck..
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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Tito nice one, One thing you will find with slicksters usually they are well schooled in the basics cc
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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap
    Tito nice one, One thing you will find with slicksters usually they are well schooled in the basics cc
    Cc back scrap...

    Absolutely the great slick fighters are well schooled in the basics..You have to be..They really understand boxing on another level to utilise what is to an unexperianced fighter a very dangerous strategy..

    James toney for instance.. His style is based on fighters styles from the fifties and previous..
    When fighters used theyr whole bodies to defend them selves.. And what you see james do know and what has taken him so far in his career is pure experiance and skill..
    every shot that he throws he knows where to move next..Its instinct and presumption..

    Another example Bernard hopkins.. Is known for great conditioning and movement ..
    A rough style.. moves side to side.. leaps in with a punch..Hits and holds, spins an opponent.. moves again.. Keeps a rythm.. Bernard understands where to move..what to throw..
    In example the tarver fight ..Fighting a southpaw..I tend to look out for his tactics..

    Hes constantly moving to the left.. so's to neutralise tarvers power hand (left in case of southpaw)..
    So tarver is finding it hard to keep his feet set to be able to catch bernard with anything slightly powerful.. Kept him pawing with the jab.. When he tried to shoot the right handed jab..Bernard was waiting on it..Rolling his shoulders and hips..Moving his body, Or moves back and throws the left hook over the pawing right jab.. Follows with a strait right.. Back on the move again..

    its all coming from basic knowledge and experiance of the ring..Bernard knows what to do to hit and be hit.. Unexperianced guys just havnt got that just yet..
    Immortal Technique

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    I think you may be right there tito. But how is one supposed to learn to be as defensively great and have it all be natural to them in the ring as Hopkins and Toney?

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTabin
    I think you may be right there tito. But how is one supposed to learn to be as defensively great and have it all be natural to them in the ring as Hopkins and Toney?
    Time and experience, the only way. You cant learn and do the things they do without spending hours upon hours in the ring either sparring or fighting. You got to believe that those two and possibly two of the biggest gym rats (at one time or another in their lives).
    You must be the change you want to see in the world. --Mahatma Gandhi

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    What about their techniques? the shoulder rolls, the rising jabs and straight right hands? Wouldn't you have to practice things like that in shadowboxing/bags/mitts etc? And yes Hopkins, and Toney (Toney not so much later on) were big time gym rats. I know that Hopkins is also a big time tape collector and Bill Miller (the man who taught Toney everything) fed him a steady diet of old flims. Lots of Charles and Moore.

    It seems like the thing to do is to immerse yourself in the world of boxing. Not just hitting bags and things like the other guys do, but actually turning your entire world into boxing so that you become a real full time student of the game.

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    There's been a few references by Hopkins and other guys on fighters like Walcott, Charles and Archie Moore.

    One great reference that a serious boxer should take advantage of is the boxing torrent sites, and try to pick up some of the old time boxing manuals. A few good manuals is "Boxing" by Edwin L. Haislett, "Championship fighting" by Jack Dempsey, "Boxing: 1943 Naval Aviation" and books by some of the old timers.

    You'll find the guys that made it big time weren't just boxers but they were also aficionados, and boxing historians. Boxer's biographies and stories are a good way to go.

    A few books I gotta recommend is the "Fireside Book of Boxing", a great book lots of true stories, fictions and accounts, "Jack Dempsey" by the man himself, it goes over a great deal of his life and ring exploits, one good book I'm reading now is a autobiography on Angelo Dundee, he's so upbeat and bubbly at times it rubs off on you just from reading it.

    Getting back to the topic at hand, you gotta practice all the things beforehand before your fights, until you don't have to think about it as it becomes natural.

    The slips, shifts, counters, feints everything you want you gotta practice over and over. Take some initiative and tell your trainer what you want to go over I'm sure he'll most likely oblige.

    Outta curiosity, what's your coaches name?
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Absolutely correct lads!! You know youre toney :P

    Toney claims he respects no other fighter...It is true that james toney's favourite fighter..Is james toney..
    But he was built on tapes of jersey joe and ezzard charles..Hes big on them
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    Immortal Technique

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Talking about James Toney, he was always big on sparring, more so than conditioning. You see his moves like the rear-shift, the shoulder roll and rising jabs come naturally because what he practices in sparring transitions into fights. This can applies to anyone, not that you should neglect your conditioning but your craft comes first.
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris N.
    Talking about James Toney, he was always big on sparring, more so than conditioning. You see his moves like the rear-shift, the shoulder roll and rising jabs come naturally because what he practices in sparring transitions into fights. This can applies to anyone, not that you should neglect your conditioning but your craft comes first.
    His lack of conditioning has been his downfall.. Both he and in another example roberto duran gave up alot of conditioning work in the gym...
    Duran was slightly better because he was a smaller guy anyway and he was still making middleweight over twenty years past his best..
    They both do or did a great deal of sparring.. Roberto used to do nothing but sparring whilst training for a fight.. Mainly due to the fact that he was happyer to make the weight that way.. Because fighting is what he loved.. He just wanted to fight and would sparr instead of working at other things to prepare for fights..
    Immortal Technique

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    Default Re: slickster or textbook style boxer?

    Need I say more? On the flipside I just got done reading the new Ring magazine and they did an article about the so called fitness gurus in boxing. Emanual Steward was talking to Vargas who was going on about all the new exercises he was doing but he was hardly doing any boxing!

    Before the Peter/Toney sequel you hear that Toney hired the Tae Bo guy, and then Callazo says he has A Pilates guy, did it make a difference? You betcha they looked as flat as ever I think that Callazo is a good fighter but he doesn't have any level ground in his training camp I mean he has 4,5 guys all giving him different information, and on the fight he wasn't given any helpful advice, what's does "He can't dig as well as you can digg." gonna help a fighter like Callazo assess the fight.

    I think the lesson is pretty straight forward, train like a boxer, think like a boxer, and you get the picture...
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

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