Thread: How would PBF vs RJJ p4p really go down?

Sorry to Pernell Whitaker, and Bernard I mean you no disrespect, its just I feel Floyd and Roy were both better fighters in their prime than you both, though not by much. Anyways what brought this up is that I was just watching Jones-Griffin 1 and I felt that if you would have had a guy like Mayweather p4p in that situation against Roy I don't feel ROy would have won. Now first of all I am not talking about Floyd up at 147+ pounds, I am talking about the 130-135 pound Floyd that could almost match Roy in speed, the guy who had all the great defensive skills he has a now, a man who can fight on the inside or the outside. THe reason I think this is a great matchup is because I feel that Floyd is the type of fighter than Roy hates to fight, a guy who doesn't open up much at all, a guy who is a really good counter puncher, and a guy who is more than just defensively sound. I feel that Roy wouldn't be able to get the feel he likes against Floyd and that would cause him more problems than we've ever seen, but it depends what Roy we see... the one against Toney wouldn't hit FLoyd a lot, but I think he would overwhelm Floyd with output when he got FLoyd on the ropes, but the Roy that fought Montell was really passive and trying to feel things out too much, and in that scenario I think it would be a really close fight, because if Roy wasn't able to counter Griffin effectively, and he was having a hard time getting off then fighting a prime Floyd would be 10x more difficult.
Please note: that Roy is my favorite fight... ever, but Floyd is right up there so I am not being/trying to be biased.

Anyways I would like to see your guys opinions, especially those of you who watched Jones-Griffin recently.

You say the Roy that fought Griffin, but you also have to ask yourself which fight. Remember he immediately rematched Griffin and DOMINATED him, so to think Roy changed with the passage of time, at least up until that point, is a falsehood. Roy is like Calzaghe in that he had the tendency to fight down to another fighter's level, or get bogged down with outside distractions, but when he was focused he was impossible to deal with.

On the other hand, Floyd has proven that it doesn't matter if he's the slower fighter. He has the maturity of a fighter several years older than him and can maintain his composure even if he's losing. One of two things would happen:

Roy jumps on Floyd in the early rounds, picking apart his defense with his superior speed and slipping what little activity Floyd gives back until he catches him with a shot that leaves Floyd hurt and out after Roy flurries him after the 1st knockdown.

Or, Floyd realizes the first rounds will be Roy's and gives him just enough pressure to make Roy burn himself down to a pace he can deal with by round 7 or 8. Then Floyd uses his accurate, one at a time punching to slice Roy up until he evens the fight out by the end and hopefully gets a SD.

Or, Roy, taking a rest in the middle rounds, sees Floyd coming on and rallies in rounds 10-12 and comes on strong to batter Floyd back, takes at least 1 of the 3 rounds and wins by SD. Prime for prime, I think Roy takes it on sheer activity alone, but Floyd fights the fight of his life and takes 4 or 5 rounds.

How can you say Roy fought down his opponents level when he virtually dominated everybody except Montell Griffin in that first fight. The only difference between the first fight and the second one is that Roy knew he could hurt Griffin with one shot, but before that point Roy was completely bewildered until in the first fight Griffin started to tire.

As for Floyd you talking about the welterweight Floyd when you say he covers up and is totally defensive... Floyd of 130-135 is as fast anyone has been at that weight, and almost as fast as Roy. He has never faced anyone faster than him(Zab and WW Floyd have almost exactly the same handspeed, footspeed reflexes). My point is that I don't think speed is that big of an issue because Roy isn't totally out of Floyd's league in terms of speed, especially younger Floyd. Also Roy has had a hard time hitting Hopkins as well who is a tricky fighter just like Montell...

As for how you see it playing out I don't see how thats possible... Based on even Zab Judah I could see Roy landing a few well timed punches on the outside on Floyd, but there is no way he would overwhelm FLoyd's defense... If Roy was a southpaw maybe, but he isn't. Floyd is a faster, better coordinated, better taught fighter than Montell who gave Jones problems technically, and Floyd can take a punch when one gets through his defense. I just see Mayweather as the wrong fighter for Roy to fight. I think RObinson would do better against Mayweather because he responds to getting punch by flurrying back, but Roy isn't like that, he would wait until he figured out Floyd only to realize this guy is as good as him too late... If they fought a second time then I see Roy winning by a few rounds because he would step on the gas a little more.

Well first off the Jones that fought Griffin in the 1st fight was not Jones at his best. He was way too defensive and didn't look that interested in the fight, but he still managed to floor Griffin in the 7th and he still come on strong in the later rounds. And was on the verge of stopping Griffin until the controversial DQ. But when Jones fought with passion in the 2nd fight he destroyed Griffin in 1 round, so i don't think its fair to use Jones vs Griffin 1 as an example because that wasn't Jones at his best and Griffin is nothing like Mayweather at all, Griffin is very short opponent and has a very awkward style. And you say that Mayweather is the type of guy Jones hates to fight, but didn't Jones dominate James Toney ?? a fighter who also uses the shoulder roll to good effect and has very good counter punching skills ?? but Jones still made those skills ineffective for Toney because Jones was much too quick on his feet and he got in and out, Jones also has an excellent arrange of punches and he can punch from all angles something Mayweather has never experienced before in his career. And plus Jones had much more power at 168 than he did at Light Heavyweight.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Also Roy has had a hard time hitting Hopkins as well who is a tricky fighter just like Montell...

Oh come on Taeth Jones had an easy time with Hopkins he was basically cruising against Hopkins, plus he injured his right hand and it wasn't his best performance. And plus it was mostly a defensive fight with both men not really committing so its hard to land at a good percentage especially someone who is a good as Hopkins technically.

Originally Posted by Taeth

better coordinated, better taught fighter than Montell who gave Jones problems technically

I really don't see why you keep bringing this fight up, first off Griffin is nothing like Mayweather at all, plus it wasn't nowhere near Jones best performance because he was too defensive but he still was on the verge of KO Griffin. In the rematch when Jones was well up for the fight he dismantled Griffin, and thats what you should be looking at. How effective Jones was and how sharp he was when he was at his best and was really up for the fight.

It's a pointless argument because the size differental is too great. Are you talking about a MW or SMW version of Jones against a 154 Floyd. That would be Floyds absolute biggest against Roy's absolute smallest. Roy grew into a full sized 175 who could move up to HW and beat a decent fighter. Floyd isn't even big WW. He filled out into a natural 140 lber who fights in the WW division because the money is better and the fighter are bigger.

It's not like Tito, where Tito was a big Welter and an OK middle.

But assuming that we could magically grow Floyd by 20lbs and 3 inches, he would give Roy absolute fits. Floyd is better p4p than Hopkins IMHO, and he his more athletic than even a prime Toney. It would probably be a total chess match and very close. I would lean to Floyd because of his superior skill.

PBF is more like James toney or even like hopkins to a certain degree. He kinda of a mixture of the two. I say this since Roy fought both guys, this will help comparisons. I would argue that toney wasn't at his best the night he fought jones but he might would have still lost anyway.

I love PBF but a Prime Roy Jones had super fast hands. PBF has fast hands but not as fast as Roy. On the flip side PBF footwork would help him defensivley because it would be harder for Roy to get off combos. Foot speed isn't something Toney is really Known for. PBF would definetly have to use his Jab. He use to use a nice jab to the body. Roy also would defentliy have to use his jab. I don't recomend either fighter leading with lefthooks.

I still don't have a clear winner in my head yet.

Originally Posted by RozzySean

It's a pointless argument because the size differental is too great. Are you talking about a MW or SMW version of Jones against a 154 Floyd. That would be Floyds absolute biggest against Roy's absolute smallest. Roy grew into a full sized 175 who could move up to HW and beat a decent fighter. Floyd isn't even big WW. He filled out into a natural 140 lber who fights in the WW division because the money is better and the fighter are bigger.

It's not like Tito, where Tito was a big Welter and an OK middle.

But assuming that we could magically grow Floyd by 20lbs and 3 inches, he would give Roy absolute fits. Floyd is better p4p than Hopkins IMHO, and he his more athletic than even a prime Toney. It would probably be a total chess match and very close. I would lean to Floyd because of his superior skill.

Your mis understanding the point of the topic. This is P4P or should i say Skill for Skill. It has nothing to do with size or weight. Pretty much were saying that skill for skill if PBF and Jones got fought each other who would win skill for skill. We're not including size. We're saying lets assume there there both natural 140 pounders who wins. Take weight out of the eqautions.

THIS IS AN EASY QUESTION. jones has fought two just as great or greater defensive fighter like floyd and he had an easy night against them. floyd has never fought anything like jones, and he has nothing in his advantage to think he could last against jones.

prime vs prime, jones would dominate floyd easy u.d or ktfo.

This has been done a zillion times and still is pointless, I dont mean to sound terse, its just that your comparing fighters that are light years away... Its like comparing Pac-Man vs Joe Calzaghe.

Floyd is light years ahead of Roy in technical brilliance

Floyds defense is just as good if not better than Hopkins and Toney not to mention he is 10x faster on his feet than Hopkins or Toney and unorthodox enough to trouble Jones in addition to Footspeed he beats Roy by a country mile as well..

I have absolutly no desire to mount a soapbox for either one but On these grounds ...On What "The Boxer" Is looking for as a comparison.....

Pure fundamentals and over all boxing technique 101 In the purest sense..I think Its Floyd over Jones as far as p4p In a hypothetical match up. Jones was an exceptional and premiere Great but when you get down down to It he was Very unorthadox with tons of Speed,Instinct,Reflex,athletisism,Handspeed Etc. But in all around traditional polished and honed long lasting fundamentals and skill that might beat the other,IMO Its Floyd.

i don't find the topic to be pointless at all. In fact i'm glad somebody has finaly done this topic without a bunch people saying roy is just big PBF. Finily someboy seems to understand the question is about skill not about weight. It makes for intersting discussin. Though will most likely never get an answer to the question it's nice to hear peoples arugments.

Originally Posted by Julius Rain

THIS IS AN EASY QUESTION. jones has fought two just as great or greater defensive fighter like floyd and he had an easy night against them. floyd has never fought anything like jones, and he has nothing in his advantage to think he could last against jones.

prime vs prime, jones would dominate floyd easy u.d or ktfo.

I think Zab Judah athletically and in terms of timing and speed is more of the problems Roy would give Floyd than any opponent Roy has foughten having similar attributes to MAyweather.

James Toney is a great fighter, but his footspeed was really effected by the weighing 180 pounds during the fight, and James Toney is a great counter puncher not defensive fighter... Michael Nunn hit Toney as easiyl as Roy did its just Nunn couldn't punch and he wasn't as fast as Jones so he got countered more. Floyd fights nothing like Toney, He uses more movement a better jab, he counters more like Roy(In his prime) and now more like HOpkins than like TOney. More importantly FLoyd isn't as fast as RJJ p4p, but he can keep up with him.

I am not even comparing their skill I am saying that Floyd's style which IMO is unothortdox would give Jones fits. If Mayweather's style was orthodox you would see many more guys fighting with it, but only a handful of guys have been able to fight with the shoulder roll at the top level. Another factor is the only punch that can get to Floyd from that stance is the jab, and Roy doesn't usually throw a jab... I think he would feel defensive against Floyd because he wouldn't see any opponings... And against Toney in the first round when Roy tried to land his left hook he wasn't able to, he had to open up to start landing punches, but I think that Floyd would start using his speed which Roy hasn't experienced anything similar to and put Roy on the defensive, after that its two of the quickest, smartest guys we've seen in 20 years doing what they do best... trying to figure eachother out.

As for people who deny Floyd's speed... go watch him when he was at 130-135 and you will remember he was CRAZY fast. He didn't throw combinations but his jab was lightning, and he was so fast he could lean back as a person jabed then come forward overtop with a straight right... I havent' seen anything like it.

Originally Posted by The Boxer

Your mis understanding the point of the topic. This is P4P or should i say Skill for Skill. It has nothing to do with size or weight. Pretty much were saying that skill for skill if PBF and Jones got fought each other who would win skill for skill. We're not including size. We're saying lets assume there there both natural 140 pounders who wins. Take weight out of the eqautions.

Did you read my last paragraph? Gave my oppinion on the hypothetical.

Taeth said pretty much what I would have said if I had more time for the post. P4P, both in terms of skill and matchup, Jones would have a very hard time with Floyd.

the more i think about it the fight will turn into a staring contest with roy doing randam shit to throw PBF off his game.

Roy jones would win close UD