Thread: Why I hate the P4P rankings

I have stated it here before. I will never look at a pound for pound list as I find it's methodology totally unfair. It is built mainly on popularity and politics IMO and many fighters, who are great fighters, will always get overlooked.

Some careers are so carefully guided and timed, that they can get placed on the list just by beating someone currently on the list, no matter how faded the person on the list is. Others on the list, will steadily climb that list as long as they keep winning (even against lesser competition) and others above them retire or get beaten.

Other great fighters, due to politics in the sport, will never get that key fight with another great fighter that they need to catapult their career. Some fighters just get avoided period, or have great skills, but a style that is not considered exciting. Too much risk for a high profile guy.

I rate fighters on a bad ass level. I will always look favorably on a fighter who is willing to get in the ring with anyone and loves the game.

What is your opinion?

A fighter who ALWAYS give fans satifaction and doesn't rob their PPV money should be the #1 p4p.

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

A fighter who ALWAYS give fans satifaction and doesn't rob their PPV money should be the #1 p4p.

I wonder what you're getting at?

Originally Posted by Deanrw

I have stated it here before. I will never look at a pound for pound list as I find it's methodology totally unfair. It is built mainly on popularity and politics IMO and many fighters, who are great fighters, will always get overlooked.

Some careers are so carefully guided and timed, that they can get placed on the list just by beating someone currently on the list, no matter how faded the person on the list is. Others on the list, will steadily climb that list as long as they keep winning (even against lesser competition) and others above them retire or get beaten.

Other great fighters, due to politics in the sport, will never get that key fight with another great fighter that they need to catapult their career. Some fighters just get avoided period, or have great skills, but a style that is not considered exciting. Too much risk for a high profile guy.

I rate fighters on a bad ass level. I will always look favorably on a fighter who is willing to get in the ring with anyone and loves the game.

What is your opinion?

Care to give an example of fighters getting overlooked?

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Originally Posted by Deanrw

I have stated it here before. I will never look at a pound for pound list as I find it's methodology totally unfair. It is built mainly on popularity and politics IMO and many fighters, who are great fighters, will always get overlooked.

Some careers are so carefully guided and timed, that they can get placed on the list just by beating someone currently on the list, no matter how faded the person on the list is. Others on the list, will steadily climb that list as long as they keep winning (even against lesser competition) and others above them retire or get beaten.

Other great fighters, due to politics in the sport, will never get that key fight with another great fighter that they need to catapult their career. Some fighters just get avoided period, or have great skills, but a style that is not considered exciting. Too much risk for a high profile guy.

I rate fighters on a bad ass level. I will always look favorably on a fighter who is willing to get in the ring with anyone and loves the game.

What is your opinion?

Care to give an example of fighters getting overlooked?

Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Robert Guerrero

Are just a few examples.

Plus many fighters, who we are forced to overlook, due to politics in the game and them never getting a fair crack at the P4P list or even a mainstream fight.

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Originally Posted by Deanrw

I have stated it here before. I will never look at a pound for pound list as I find it's methodology totally unfair. It is built mainly on popularity and politics IMO and many fighters, who are great fighters, will always get overlooked.

Some careers are so carefully guided and timed, that they can get placed on the list just by beating someone currently on the list, no matter how faded the person on the list is. Others on the list, will steadily climb that list as long as they keep winning (even against lesser competition) and others above them retire or get beaten.

Other great fighters, due to politics in the sport, will never get that key fight with another great fighter that they need to catapult their career. Some fighters just get avoided period, or have great skills, but a style that is not considered exciting. Too much risk for a high profile guy.

I rate fighters on a bad ass level. I will always look favorably on a fighter who is willing to get in the ring with anyone and loves the game.

What is your opinion?

Care to give an example of fighters getting overlooked?

Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Robert Guerrero

Are just a few examples.

Plus many fighters, who we are forced to overlook, due to politics in the game and them never getting a fair crack at the P4P list or even a mainstream fight.

You'd be hard presses to make a case for any of them being Top 10 p4p.

John has the controversial win over Marquez but otherwise his record is full of nobodies. Donaire has beaten Darchinan but nobody else of real merit yet, and Darchinyan was nowhere near p4p.

Guzman is a great fighter and probably top 20 but he's currently only the third best fighter in his division so cannot be regarded as a top 10 p4p.

Guerro? Is this a joke? He's not even top 20 lol

I'd personally say David Haye has a better resume for p4p than all of those above seeing as he knocked out the undisputed cruiserweight champ in his own back yard and then knocked out the Ring number 1 contender in 2 rounds immediately following.

Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft

A fighter who ALWAYS give fans satifaction and doesn't rob their PPV money should be the #1 p4p.

You're talking about Erik Morales, right?

Originally Posted by ragintorent

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Robert Guerrero

Are just a few examples.

Plus many fighters, who we are forced to overlook, due to politics in the game and them never getting a fair crack at the P4P list or even a mainstream fight.

You'd be hard presses to make a case for any of them being Top 10 p4p.

John has the controversial win over Marquez but otherwise his record is full of nobodies. Donaire has beaten Darchinan but nobody else of real merit yet, and Darchinyan was nowhere near p4p.

Guzman is a great fighter and probably top 20 but he's currently only the third best fighter in his division so cannot be regarded as a top 10 p4p.

Guerro? Is this a joke? He's not even top 20 lol

I'd personally say David Haye has a better resume for p4p than all of those above seeing as he knocked out the undisputed cruiserweight champ in his own back yard and then knocked out the Ring number 1 contender in 2 rounds immediately following.

Donaire has KOd Luis Maldonado, one of the very best at his weight also.

He was decent earning a disputed draw with Mijares but he'd never even won a world title belt so not really one of the top guys.

He's the equivalent of a Kendall Holt or Rocky Juaruez.

A decent win but not p4p making.

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Originally Posted by Deanrw

I have stated it here before. I will never look at a pound for pound list as I find it's methodology totally unfair. It is built mainly on popularity and politics IMO and many fighters, who are great fighters, will always get overlooked.

Some careers are so carefully guided and timed, that they can get placed on the list just by beating someone currently on the list, no matter how faded the person on the list is. Others on the list, will steadily climb that list as long as they keep winning (even against lesser competition) and others above them retire or get beaten.

Other great fighters, due to politics in the sport, will never get that key fight with another great fighter that they need to catapult their career. Some fighters just get avoided period, or have great skills, but a style that is not considered exciting. Too much risk for a high profile guy.

I rate fighters on a bad ass level. I will always look favorably on a fighter who is willing to get in the ring with anyone and loves the game.

What is your opinion?

Care to give an example of fighters getting overlooked?

Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Robert Guerrero

Are just a few examples.

Plus many fighters, who we are forced to overlook, due to politics in the game and them never getting a fair crack at the P4P list or even a mainstream fight.

I can agree to some guys being overlooked by populartity or actually lack of world wide mainstream exposure....There was a thread not long ago about everyones top 10 P4P..after the Vazquez/Marquez 3 fight...I had Chris John on my list and was blasted for it...but IMO he is a guy who is often overlooked due to the lack of TV exposure...

As for Doniare, Guerrero and Guzman...they do not quite fit the bill yet sorry to say....Nonito would be the first of the three IMO to make the list...it is a toss up between who is better Robert or Joan TBH I don't see either as P4P fighters any time soon.....

The rankings are based on quality of wins (Can hardly say it with a straight face)...But that is how it is supposed to be anyhow.....Right now the rankings are pretty much on Target...

In no particular order (I am just nam,ing them off the top of my head)..the usual P4P at the moment goes..

PBF, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Vazquez, Pacquiao, Rafael and JMM Marquez, Pavlik, Wright, with one spot changing up about once a month...

IMO boxrec has the worst P4P list out there....They have Haye ranked higher then Calzaghe...I can understand the frustration though

How can there be a list anyway,if you ain't P4P you ain't P4P!!!!!

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Originally Posted by Deanrw

Originally Posted by JT Rock

Care to give an example of fighters getting overlooked?

Chris John
Nonito Donaire
Joan Guzman
Robert Guerrero

Are just a few examples.

Plus many fighters, who we are forced to overlook, due to politics in the game and them never getting a fair crack at the P4P list or even a mainstream fight.

I can agree to some guys being overlooked by populartity or actually lack of world wide mainstream exposure....There was a thread not long ago about everyones top 10 P4P..after the Vazquez/Marquez 3 fight...I had Chris John on my list and was blasted for it...but IMO he is a guy who is often overlooked due to the lack of TV exposure...

As for Doniare, Guerrero and Guzman...they do not quite fit the bill yet sorry to say....Nonito would be the first of the three IMO to make the list...it is a toss up between who is better Robert or Joan TBH I don't see either as P4P fighters any time soon.....

The rankings are based on quality of wins (Can hardly say it with a straight face)...But that is how it is supposed to be anyhow.....Right now the rankings are pretty much on Target...

In no particular order (I am just nam,ing them off the top of my head)..the usual P4P at the moment goes..

PBF, Hopkins, Calzaghe, Vazquez, Pacquiao, Rafael and JMM Marquez, Pavlik, Wright, with one spot changing up about once a month...

IMO boxrec has the worst P4P list out there....They have Haye ranked higher then Calzaghe...I can understand the frustration though

I tell you what though, if Haye was a little guy, say from the bantamweight division and had just had back to back KO wins over the Ring and universally recognised champ and then over the number 1 ranked Contender and fellow world champ in 2 rounds people would be talking about him more I think.

You see guys like Mijares, John, Guerreo etc creeping up into or near peoples p4p lists and they havn't done what Haye has done in my opinion.

If Mijares had followed up his beatdown of Arce with a 2 round demolition of Fernado Montiel you'd hear a LOT of talk on here for him being p4p.

Same with John if he knocked out Guerrero.

Not saying Haye is top 10 p4p but his achievements do deserve credit, I'd probably have him in my top 20 p4p now, and above Mijares, Guerro and John imo.

Originally Posted by winscomeez

How can there be a list anyway,if you ain't P4P you ain't P4P!!!!!

What he said...

It's amazing how serioulsy fans take the P4P rankings. It's all utter bollocks.

Joan Guzman would beat half the current ranked P4P top 10 (legit, respected, ) with his eyes closed.. but no-one rates him in the top 10 because even though he possesses a clear sick talent he doesn't have the "names" on his resume.. the very same "names" that wont fight him because he's avoidable..

Originally Posted by Fenster

It's amazing how serioulsy fans take the P4P rankings. It's all utter bollocks.

Joan Guzman would beat half the current ranked P4P top 10 (legit, respected, ) with his eyes closed.. but no-one rates him in the top 10 because even though he possesses a clear sick talent he doesn't have the "names" on his resume.. the very same "names" that wont fight him because he's avoidable..

Just playing devil's advocate here.
If he hasn't been matched up against top-tier opposition how can you be sure his skills are as sick as you claim? You can have all the potential/skills in the world, but until to prove you can beat or compete with the best you do not belong among them IMO. Plenty of guys look great until they meet a Pacquiao or a Hopkins.

Originally Posted by CFH

Originally Posted by Fenster

It's amazing how serioulsy fans take the P4P rankings. It's all utter bollocks.

Joan Guzman would beat half the current ranked P4P top 10 (legit, respected, ) with his eyes closed.. but no-one rates him in the top 10 because even though he possesses a clear sick talent he doesn't have the "names" on his resume.. the very same "names" that wont fight him because he's avoidable..

Just playing devil's advocate here.
If he hasn't been matched up against top-tier opposition how can you be sure his skills are as sick as you claim? You can have all the potential/skills in the world, but until to prove you can beat or compete with the best you do not belong among them IMO. Plenty of guys look great until they meet a Pacquiao or a Hopkins.

P4P is about mythical match-ups with size and weight leveled. Guzman fighting Pac doesn't need the mythical bullshit, they're the same weight.. they fight - we get the better man.

But the likes of Pac can avoid Guzman because he doesn't need him. Too big a risk for too little reward.. and even were they to fight and Pac wins would that mean as a hardcore follower of boxing, in a P4P scenario would you bet against Guzman over the likes of Hatton, Marquez, Cotto, Pavlik, Vasquez etc...?