Thread: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?

Whoa, hold the flames.....

Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?

I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)

Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?

If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?

everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)

For Tsuyu, he was way past his prime. Taylor, won it clearly twice, can't see why doubt that one. Whitaker, yeah, no matter how much I love Chavez the decision doesn't convince me. I'll have to see it again sometime. Gift fight, maybe. But also a questionable draw against Miguel Angel Gonzalez.

The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?

It's pretty bad when fans get to idolize someone and don't see them as humans anymore. If he quit, he had his reaons. So what! He was hurt, tired, frustrated, etc. I don't know the reason but he quit. Only he knows why. Still, it doesn't take away from all his ring accomplishments:
He holds records for most successful defenses of world titles (27) and most title fights (37). ESPN recently ranked him as the 17th greatest boxer in history.
Considered one of the greatest fighters in history, Chávez won six world titles in three weight divisions: WBC Super Featherweight (1984), WBA Lightweight (1987), WBC Lightweight (198, WBC Super Lightweight (1989), IBF Light Welterweight (1990), and WBC Super Lightweight (1994). Chávez also went undefeated for 93 bouts before his first retirement with a record of 104-5-2 (80 knockouts). World champions whom Chávez defeated include Jose Luis RamÃ*rez, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor, Roger Mayweather,Lonnie Smith, Sammy Fuentes, Héctor "Macho" Camacho, Juan Laporte,Edwin Rosario,Greg Haugen,Tony López, and Frankie Randall, who had taken the WBC light welterweight belt from Chávez just four months earlier.

I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so?

Maybe because he was in the sport for so long and then suddenly you have this younger Mexican who happens to live in the USA come and beat him. How do you think the fans would feel? That's all.

(of course he's got a few gifts himself)

As well as gift looses: Mosley II, Trinidad, Mayweather (there are lots of mixed reviews about that one from many boxing experts).

JCC was a legend because he fought so often and he was a warrior, he was fighting 6-10 times a year for a long time, when you do that and win as much as he did he's an easy guy to support, I'm not saying that he had issues, but for example when he fought Tszyu he was already 100+ fights into his career. He was a three weight title holder as well. Sure he got his share of gifts, but he was always fighting heart first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXaud0IM6YE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afB7f...=pXaud0IM6YE"]

Originally Posted by Althugz

Whoa, hold the flames.....

Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?

I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)

Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?

If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?

I'm from a bit of a different generation then Chavez and I can definitely tell you are too. You are watching the wrong fights.

He was the first ever great fighter from Mexico, built an astronomical record and he did beat great fighters. He beat a lot of great fighters, even hall of fame fighters in Edwin Rosario and Jose Luis Ramirez. He also had huge wins against Mayweather, Camacho, Haugen, Ahn (not sure if that is the right name) ect, those are the fights that he established his legend including against Taylor which is an amazing victory no matter how you feel about it.

By the time he fought Whitaker he had held the title for almost 8 years. Those are his prime fights, it's stupid to say that he was made to look stupid in the face of any talent because that's just not true, you're watching the wrong fights.

De La Hoya had a great performance in the first Chavez bout and was just entering his prime. By that time Chavez was nowhere near the fighter and had trouble with speed from that point after.

But no doubt about it, it wasn't his look that got Chavez so much support that's ludicrous.

[quote=Chino;512567]

He holds records for most successful defenses of world titles (27) and most title fights (37). World champions whom Chávez defeated include Jose Luis Ram�*rez, Rocky Lockridge, Meldrick Taylor, Roger Mayweather,Lonnie Smith, Sammy Fuentes, Héctor "Macho" Camacho, Juan Laporte,Edwin Rosario,Greg Haugen,Tony López, and Frankie Randall, who had taken the WBC light welterweight belt from Chávez just four months earlier.

See I never knew that. 27 defences and 37 title fights is amazing. Thanks for that have some rep.
Anyone else?

[quote=amat;512570]

Originally Posted by Althugz

it wasn't his look that got Chavez so much support that's ludicrous.

You misunderstood me, I didn't mean JCC was popular for his look but rather that Oscar wasn't as popular for his look. He looks more like a pretty boy where as JCC looks more like a fighter. That's what I meant by the different 'looks'

Forgot to mention, he also holdes (or holded) the record for the biggest paid attendance for a boxing event which happened to be in Mexico City's Aztec Stadium (around 140,000 in attendance). It was when Chavez faced Haugen.

Just for the record, he himself did not quit against ODLH, his corner stopped it because he had a real bad cut inside his mouth and was swallowing too much blood. He even got pissed at Merchant when Larry implied he quit, he was livid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwt9pCbtzg

Chavez was pretty much already a legend when he fought Taylor. The Tszu fight was well past his prime. Look at his fights against Rosario, Ramirez, and R Mayweather twice for example. He was a truly great champion.

He never made any gay humping motions after beating someone Maybe thats why the Mexican fans of JCC never took to ODLH....

Originally Posted by Althugz

Whoa, hold the flames.....

Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?

I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)

Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?

If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?

I don't know where to start off but right off the bat I can tell you that if your talking about JCC vs. Tszyu and ODLH and your talking about him quitting and getting found then CLEARLY you are not fully aware of JCCs career.
To judge JCC by those 2 fights and completely ignore and not look into the other 80 something fights he had is IMO a bit naive.
JCC represented much more then just a boxer. He represented a struggle, he represented a country.
I would strongly suggest you try and get your hands on JCCs documentary it was recently released and directed and produced by Diego Luna. You'll understand a lot more about JCC.
The fact that MTaylor outboxed the shit out of him but he fought 'til the end shows you the heart and determination that he had.

I can type here all night but you need to see more then just 4 fights to conprehend his status.

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Originally Posted by Althugz

Whoa, hold the flames.....

Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?

I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)

Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?

If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?

I don't know where to start off but right off the bat I can tell you that if your talking about JCC vs. Tszyu and ODLH and your talking about him quitting and getting found then CLEARLY you are not fully aware of JCCs career.
To judge JCC by those 2 fights and completely ignore and not look into the other 80 something fights he had is IMO a bit naive.
JCC represented much more then just a boxer. He represented a struggle, he represented a country.
I would strongly suggest you try and get your hands on JCCs documentary it was recently released and directed and produced by Diego Luna. You'll understand a lot more about JCC.
The fact that MTaylor outboxed the shit out of him but he fought 'til the end shows you the heart and determination that he had.

I can type here all night but you need to see more then just 4 fights to conprehend his status.

Very well said. Chavez is a boxing legend. That's undebatable.

Pretty much as everyone else has said...You need to see everything on Chavez career....Sounds like you have only seen the tail end of it when he was past his best days fighting you guys like DLH who at the time was a phenom....Chavez is everything people make him out to be and more....Fighters like that come along rarely....

He fought alot of fights in Mexico too, he really built up his record in Mexico, got their support as being a peoples champ. He came to the states won the green belt and it quickly became Mexico's best fighter against the World....and he won alot, alot alot. The guy made it to 87-0 and theres alot of big names on there I'll go through some bigger ones:
Terrance Alli
Greg Haugen
Hector Camacho
Angel Hernandez
Frankie Mitchell
I wont count the Taylor fight...
Alberto le las Mercedes Cortes
Roger Mayweather
Jose Luis Ramirez
Rafael Limon
Nicky Perez
Edwin Rosario
Juan La Porte
Rocky Lockridge
Rueben Castillo
These are just the guys on his resume before he lost 1 fight.

At his best he was the best.