Thread: Boxrec make JMM No1 Lightweight. Who agrees?

Just looking on Boxrec and they have made Juan Manuel Marquez the No1 Lightweight in the world. I personally think that I would go for Pacquiao but then again before either had moved upto the division I would have made it a toss up between Casamayor and Campbell as before he beat Diaz I held Diaz up there.

So with JMM beating Casa last night I can understand why they have made him No1 but I'd like to know who agrees with them? I will have to vote NO for now at least as I think that Pac is the top man personally and whether you agreed with the decision or not he beat JMM last time they met.

Who cares about BoxRec...

You gotta go around and get the big picture, meaning go look at other sites and see what the general sensus is. You can't base anything around BoxRec that database is not a good one for rankings.

Let The Ring, EPSN among other sites update their rankings and you'll get a better feel of where he should be.


For me the rankings at Lighweight should be as follows;

1. JMM
2. Nate
3. Pac
4. "Baby Bull" Diaz
5. Casamayor
6. David Diaz
7. Santa Cruz
8. Kats
9. "Kid" Diaz
10. Romanov

Nate Campbel is numver 1 at 135lbs.

Marques is 2nd.

Marquez is the champion.

I don't see how Marquez can claim to be number 1. For me Nate Campbell is the lightweight champ as he beat the man considered by everybody to be the best fighter at 130 lbs.

Casamayor may have been the linear champion but he's looked God awful lately. His win over Coralles was wholly uninspired. He got his ass handed to him by Santa Cruz and he went life and death with Katsidis who is a poor mans Gatti.

No way was Casamayor the best lightweight in the division, not in 2008.

I'd have Pac at two. Although his win over Diaz isn't as impressive as a win over Casa he did get the decision over Marquez, and I can't justify putting a fighter above another fighter to whom they lost in the past year.

Campbell must be considered the lightweight number 1 right now, although I guess Marquez has the linear claim.

My own rankings, would be as follows.

1. Campbell
2. Pacquauio
3. Marquez
4. J Diaz
5. Casamayor
6. Santa Cruz
7. Julio Diaz
8. D Diaz
9. Romanov
10. Katsidis

So you have Nate at number because he beat "baby bull" for 3 titles.

The WBA title was Juans baby he get's full credit for that one...
The WBO title he picked it after "Popo" Freitas won it which was "vacant" and beat Zahir for it. a vacant title...
The IBF title is even funnier, Jesus Chavez was the title holder then he retired/was out for about 2 yrs. comesback still as the champ and loses the title by injury to the knee vs. Julio Diaz in 3 fucken rounds.

Casa might not have been looking great and I can def. agree with that but he was still the lineal champ.
I keep reading this comment about Casa not being the champ because he lost to Santa Cruz. While I agree that Santa Cruz was blindedly robbed that still doesn't take that Casa was unfortunately awarded the win.

Also if that is the case then Pac should not be listed as wouldn't you all agree Morales beat David Diaz for his title?

If that is the case then Pac should also not be considered highly as David Diaz was beat by Morales.

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Who cares about BoxRec...

You gotta go around and get the big picture, meaning go look at other sites and see what the general sensus is. You can't base anything around BoxRec that database is not a good one for rankings.

Let The Ring, EPSN among other sites update their rankings and you'll get a better feel of where he should be.


For me the rankings at Lighweight should be as follows;

1. JMM
2. Nate
3. Pac
4. "Baby Bull" Diaz
5. Casamayor
6. David Diaz
7. Santa Cruz
8. Kats
9. "Kid" Diaz
10. Romanov

I know this about boxrec. I didn't make it clear in my question sorry. I mean they have Pac at no5 in the p4p rankings which is insane. I was just commenting on their opinion and wondered who agreed!

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

So you have Nate at number because he beat "baby bull" for 3 titles.

The WBA title was Juans baby he get's full credit for that one...
The WBO title he picked it after "Popo" Freitas won it which was "vacant" and beat Zahir for it. a vacant title...
The IBF title is even funnier, Jesus Chavez was the title holder then he retired/was out for about 2 yrs. comesback still as the champ and loses the title by injury to the knee vs. Julio Diaz in 3 fucken rounds.

Casa might not have been looking great and I can def. agree with that but he was still the lineal champ.
I keep reading this comment about Casa not being the champ because he lost to Santa Cruz. While I agree that Santa Cruz was blindedly robbed that still doesn't take that Casa was unfortunately awarded the win.

Also if that is the case then Pac should not be listed as wouldn't you all agree Morales beat David Diaz for his title?

If that is the case then Pac should also not be considered highly as David Diaz was beat by Morales.

Well said.

1. Nate Campbell
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Juan Diaz
5. Joel Casamayor
6. Julio Diaz
7. David Diaz
8. Santa Cruz
9. Yuri Romanov
10. Breidis Prescott

Originally Posted by CutMeMick

So you have Nate at number because he beat "baby bull" for 3 titles.

The WBA title was Juans baby he get's full credit for that one...
The WBO title he picked it after "Popo" Freitas won it which was "vacant" and beat Zahir for it. a vacant title...
The IBF title is even funnier, Jesus Chavez was the title holder then he retired/was out for about 2 yrs. comesback still as the champ and loses the title by injury to the knee vs. Julio Diaz in 3 fucken rounds.

Casa might not have been looking great and I can def. agree with that but he was still the lineal champ.
I keep reading this comment about Casa not being the champ because he lost to Santa Cruz. While I agree that Santa Cruz was blindedly robbed that still doesn't take that Casa was unfortunately awarded the win.

Also if that is the case then Pac should not be listed as wouldn't you all agree Morales beat David Diaz for his title?

If that is the case then Pac should also not be considered highly as David Diaz was beat by Morales.

The Morales Diaz decision wasn't even in the same ballpark as Santa Cruz and Casa. It was a very close fight that could have gone either way, much like the Pacquaio Marquez fight.

Santa Cruz on the other hand was robbed like few others have been robbed in boxing history.

But even if you allow for that how do you justify putting Marquez above Manny when Manny beat him in the past year?

I can understand the Ring making Marquesz their champ, as they always give it to the linear champ so maybe according to criteria that is the 'correct' decision.

But nobody can convince me that Juan Diaz and Nate Campbell are easier opponents than Casamayor at this stage in his career.

Both Campbell and Juan Diaz would beaten Casa soundly yesterday imo, as would Manny and Juan Guzman. Casa is simply too old and done and should retire.

He hasn't looked good in a couple of years.

Coming into his fight with Campbell it was blatently clear to everyone that Juan Diaz was THE man in the division. He was unbeaten and unifying world titles, exactly what a champion is supposed to do. Casa was inactive and then losing to average fighters only to be given a gift by the judges.

Compare the number Juan Diaz did on Katsidis to the trouble that Casa had with him. He's done plain and simple.

Great win for Marquez but it doesn't equate to beating a young, hungry, prime fighter like Juan Diaz. Campbells win was far bigger imo.

Campbell is the best lightweight on merit right now. I understand he doesn't hold the 'linear' title that the Ring harps on about so muchbut in every other way he's the champ.

Forget the silly alphabet belts - you're (bilbo) picking the champ on your interpretation of formlines. That just complicates things further. How about Casamayor already having a victory over Campbell?

Marquez is the MAN because Casa was the man. Campbells three alpahbets mean fuck all. Fact.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Forget the silly alphabet belts - you're (bilbo) picking the champ on your interpretation of formlines. That just complicates things further. How about Casamayor already having a victory over Campbell?

Marquez is the MAN because Casa was the man. Campbells three alpahbets mean fuck all. Fact.

Juan Diaz was considered the man when Nate Campbell beat him and he was considered the best Lightweight at that time and was also top 10 P4P.

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by Fenster

Forget the silly alphabet belts - you're (bilbo) picking the champ on your interpretation of formlines. That just complicates things further. How about Casamayor already having a victory over Campbell?

Marquez is the MAN because Casa was the man. Campbells three alpahbets mean fuck all. Fact.

Juan Diaz was considered the man when Nate Campbell beat him and he was considered the best Lightweight at that time and was also top 10 P4P.

Casa was the man from when he beat Corrales

i guess hes #1 BUT only because he kod casa which is a hell of a way to enter 135 but you cant count nate out either they might as well face each other

Originally Posted by Fenster

Forget the silly alphabet belts - you're (bilbo) picking the champ on your interpretation of formlines. That just complicates things further. How about Casamayor already having a victory over Campbell?

Marquez is the MAN because Casa was the man. Campbells three alpahbets mean fuck all. Fact.

You know, it's a really complicated picture. I completely agree with you that according to the Ring criteria that Marquez is now the man as he did indeed beat the man and is now the linear champ.

But it's more confusing than that. The Ring rankings are devised as a way to rank fairly and accurately the state of each boxing's divisons so that mess of the alphabet titles and dodgy organisation rankings becomes clearer.

In this particular instance though going strictly by the Ring's ranking criteria only serves to muddy the waters further so to speak.

Coming into his fight with Nate Campbell there is absolutely no question that Juan Diaz WAS considered the man to beat in the division. Casa had been the beneficiary of arguably one of the worst judging decisions of all time and had looked terrible against Santa Cruz. Furthermore he simply wasn't fighting and was too inactive.

Diaz on the other hand was on a tear through the division, holding 3 belts and forcing reigning champ Julio Diaz and lightweight great Acelino Freitas to quit on their stools from the punishment he was dishing out.

There is absolutely no question that Juan Diaz was THE man in the lightweight division. He didn't have the claim to lineage that Casa had but he clearly and undisputabley the best fighter in the division.

So Campbells dominating victory over him was huge.

Meanwhile Casa had had like one fight in two years and got schooled, it was simply no contest as to who was the champ in the division.

So whilst I agree with you that the 'correct' ranking is to put Marquezs as champ for beating Casa, this is simply not an accurate reflection of the lightweight division.

Marquez didn't beat the best lightweight, he didn't beat the real number one in the division. Nate Campbell did when he beat Juan Diaz.

This means that the Ring rankings in this particular case actually produce an innacurate picture of the lightweight division.

It's something of an irony but shows that even the Ring rankings are flawed and that indeed that ranking fighters is very hard if not impossible to do.