Thread: Resumes - Mayweather vs Pacquiao

I've recently been having a lot of debate with a few good friends and some not so good friends who are into boxing at different levels. Some are in pretty deep, some claim to be in deep (but from their knowledge it shows that they aren't) and some admit to being the casual fan.

Admittedly, I started watching British boxing when I was little..the Eubank vs Benn era, I rarely missed a Eubank match with my dad. However I DID stop watching it when my parents went their seperate ways but I also think Eubank retiring had something to do with it - He was my dad's favourite fighter and I don't think anyone else really captured his imagination after that. So, I only really got back into boxing since the age of 21 (5 years ago) and have had to play catch up..I consider myself hardcore-ish because I get obsessive when I get into something and wanna find out everything about it. I'm nowhere near the level of some guys here though

Anyway the reason that's relevant to the thread is that I keep having discussions with people and they talk like they have knowledge but in reality they don't - The main arguements people have are "Mayweather ducked elite fighters and fought safe - Compare his resume with Pacquiao's"

So I did...On paper, the names on Pacquaio's resume crap all over Mayweathers but all things considered i.e results of fights, performances, opponent career age etc, I found them almost to be neck and neck.

Yepp, I say that favouring Mayweather but I by no means dislike Pacquiao (apart from his recent antics). I picked him to knock out Hatton and was happy for him doing so - I enjoy his style and he has balls of steel.

Here are some interesting things about each of their opponents :

FIGHTERS OF NOTE FOUGHT IN THEIR PRIMES

Mayweather : - Hernandez (slightly out at 32), Angel Manfredy, Diego Corales, Jesus Chavez, Jose Luis Castillo x 2, Phillip N'dou, Demarcus Corley, Zab Judah (slightly out after Baldomir), De La Hoya (debatable but he was certainly not shot), Ricky Hatton

Pacquiao : - Marquez 1 + 2 (second time slightly out of prime), Barrera 1, Oscar Larios, Morales 1 (slightly out of prime), Oscar Larios (slightly out after being knocked out by Vazquez), Solis, Diaz and Cotto (slightly out of prime)

Mayweather wins number of fighters of note in prime fought 11 - 9
Pacquiao has the better names. Of course fighters primes are an area of debate

PERFORMANCES

This is the important one for me - Pac gets credit for fighting these guys but he's almost always come up short until recently.

The fights vs Oscar I give Mayweather more credit for as he fought a legit De La Hoya compared to a dormant one that Pac fought.

Hatton I give them even credit for - Mayweather broke Hatton when he was undefeated, Pacquiao picked up the pieces emphatically when Hatton was showing signs of reduced punch resistance against Lazcano after the Mayweather fight.

Marquez I give the edge to Mayweather - I know the weight difference was major but that was a tune-up. For Pac it was an all out life and death war in which I feel he definitely lost the 2nd fight but have yet to watch the first fight. Altogether Marquez won many more rounds than has pacquiao. Slight edge to Mayweather.

Overall I feel Mayweather wins this category - 0 defeats, 1 arguable decision when he was fighting with an injury.

Pacquiao has losses against Morales who was just past his peak, lost twice to Marquez in almost everyones eyes so taking those 3 fights out leaves his resume looking quite bare with just Cotto and Barrera 1 being the only 2 real elite fighters in their prime on his record.

The last thing I want to address is this "ducking" issue that always comes up with nearly all people who have a problem with Floyd Mayweather.

I will dare to say that Mayweather is NOT afraid to fight anybody. He will fight anybody for money.

He was apparently ducking Margarito (my fave accusation) but was he really ducking Margarito if he is now facing the guy who destroyed him in his last fight? No

The other one is Cotto - I don't ever remember Cotto being interested in that fight and it woulda been a hell of a fight for sure..but..did he duck him? He was negotiating a fight with the guy who destroyed Cotto and Pac pulled out over valid drug tests. So was he ducking Cotto? No

Pacquiao could be accused of it too in my opinion - Got out of a fight with Mayweather over simple tests, didn't want a 3rd fight with Marquez to squash the controversy (Mayweather gave an immediate rematch to his one controversial victory).

Roach is probably more responsible for that and matches his fighter up very well...something the Floyd camp was always accused of doing (and admittedly HAVE been doing for a lot of his late career)

However, I wouldn't accuse either fighter of "ducking" because that shows fear and neither have it from what I've seen.

It just wound me up because the guys debating with me mostly have only been watching the latter part of the two fighters careers. Pacquiao takes the stakes in that part for sure but Mayweathers earlier career is far more stellar than Pacquiao's. The two CV's will be more even after the fighters next two fights.

As of now, I think both CV's need to be taken with a pinch of salt = The names on Pacquiao's CV aren't what they all seem and so to do Mayweather's more convincing performances but against a lot of B+ fighters.

Your thoughts?

Mayweather fighting Hatton at 147lb should not count too highly but beating ODH at light middle was a better victory.

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

and Pacquiao's wins over Morales came clearly after Morales was past his best, i'd say their resumes are about even, Mayweather taking on big names like Chavez, Hernandez, and Corrales before they had their biggest win or best showing and Pacquiao taking on the others after they passed their peak, guess it's a glass half empty kinda thing

Originally Posted by Master

Mayweather fighting Hatton at 147lb should not count too highly but beating ODH at light middle was a better victory.

Hatton was former WBA 147lb champ and Mayweather is'nt the biggest 147lb fighter in size well wasn't at the time and Hatton was unbeaten 43-0 who knew what he was fully capable of end of the day Mayweather was the first man to beat Hatton and in good fashion.

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

No. Morales and cotto were damaged when pac beat them. Especially cotto. If cotto hadn't been beaten up by margarito before pac fought him Id think different. That boy was damaged though.

Should add the resume number of drug tests avoided....

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

I disagree. Cotto was not as good a win as PBF over 154lbs ODLH coming off his destruction of Mayorga. Pac fought an absolute shadow of that man at a weight he couldn't make.

Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

and Pacquiao's wins over Morales came clearly after Morales was past his best, i'd say their resumes are about even, Mayweather taking on big names like Chavez, Hernandez, and Corrales before they had their biggest win or best showing and Pacquiao taking on the others after they passed their peak, guess it's a glass half empty kinda thing

Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, are good fighters. But i'd hardly call them big names, i mean in truth there only really known for there losses. Not there wins, i agree about the Erik Morales fights though.

Erik Morales had clearly seen better days losing to MAB a 2nd time, then an embarrassing loss to Zahir Raheem. But Manny Pacquiao still deserves his dues for beating MAB the 1st time, because MAB was P4P top 5 and had a string of impressive wins.

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

I disagree. Cotto was not as good a win as PBF over 154lbs ODLH coming off his destruction of Mayorga. Pac fought an absolute shadow of that man at a weight he couldn't make.

I think thats debatable, yes ODLH did destroy Ricardo Mayorga. But again he fought Floyd Mayweather Jr a year after that fight. And he had only 3 fights in almost 3 years, it was still a good win. Considering ODLH had all the advantages.

But again Manny Pacquiao did destroy Miguel Cotto, leaving no real doubt. Maybe Miguel Cotto had seen better days after the Antonio Margarito fight, but ODLH was hardly at his peak either. And Manny Pacquiao in his last few fights did move up in weight and destroy fighters, no one thought he had a chance against.

Originally Posted by Hornfinger

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

No. Morales and cotto were damaged when pac beat them. Especially cotto. If cotto hadn't been beaten up by margarito before pac fought him Id think different. That boy was damaged though.

Should add the resume number of drug tests avoided....

Forgetting all this steroid nonsense, because theres no 100 percent proof yet. Miguel Cotto still managed to beat Joshua Clottey, and destroy a decent fighter in Michael Jennings. I don't think he was that "damaged". And the way Manny Pacquiao dominated Miguel Cotto, i don't really see how much different it could of been.

Originally Posted by Tysonbruno

Originally Posted by Master

Mayweather fighting Hatton at 147lb should not count too highly but beating ODH at light middle was a better victory.

Hatton was former WBA 147lb champ and Mayweather is'nt the biggest 147lb fighter in size well wasn't at the time and Hatton was unbeaten 43-0 who knew what he was fully capable of end of the day Mayweather was the first man to beat Hatton and in good fashion.

Hatton was shite at Welter and just barely beat Collazo who is not known to be a damaging hitter but gave Ricky hell.

Pacman and mayweathers resume are very simmilar with Pacmans win other Cotto making his slightly better.

just to add to this, pac has also "avoided" certain fighters in his old weight classes. Guzman, valero and mosley most recently at welter. Not really a negative imo because you either clear out your division or move up in weight and take more titles. Either one is challenging in its own right. However pac usually gets a free pass. Both fighters are very similar when the smoke is cleared.

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

Originally Posted by levi#1BoxingFan

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

and Pacquiao's wins over Morales came clearly after Morales was past his best, i'd say their resumes are about even, Mayweather taking on big names like Chavez, Hernandez, and Corrales before they had their biggest win or best showing and Pacquiao taking on the others after they passed their peak, guess it's a glass half empty kinda thing

Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, are good fighters. But i'd hardly call them big names, i mean in truth there only really known for there losses. Not there wins, i agree about the Erik Morales fights though.

Erik Morales had clearly seen better days losing to MAB a 2nd time, then an embarrassing loss to Zahir Raheem. But Manny Pacquiao still deserves his dues for beating MAB the 1st time, because MAB was P4P top 5 and had a string of impressive wins.

i completely agree, Barrera gave no signs of slowing down heading into that fight, and he rebounded nicely after the loss, so Pacquiao should be given full credit for the first win

Pacquiao has the better resume. Pound for pound Barrera, Morales, and Cotto are all three better than anyone Floyd has faced. Im not taking the JMM fight into consideration because obviously he doesnt belong at 147.

Rubbish. Name one fighter that Manny fought that could have beaten Diego Corrales at the time he fought PBF. Corrales would have done to Cotto what Margarito did to him earlier, and without paddings. He would have destroyed all the fighters Manny beat, and then some. His long reach and power would have devasted everyone on Manny's list, and he would have pulverized Manny.

The problem with you guys, is that your hate for PBF has the effect of lobotomizing your brains. You have to be a Steinbeck's Lennie to assert that Barrera, Morales and Cotto were better than Diego Corrales before he was destroyed by a young Mayweather.

I agree with the general analysis of the thread starter, but feel that he is taking it easy on Mannie because of the Public sentiment. That sentiment surrenders logic in pursuit of emotionalism. This is a situation in which one athlete proposed random drug testing prior to their athletic engagement. The emotional reaction from PBF haters is presented as though PBF demanded that Manny do something he was not prepared to do. I mean I get cognitive dissonance from reading some the reasonings and rationales being presented to defend Manny's ducking out of random drug testing. Because that is, in effect, what he did. He ducked out of random drug testing, and then filed a lawsuit to ostensibly regain his good name.

A little advice for Manny and his infatuated assembley. Lawyers and pussyfooting businessmen file lawsuits to regain their good names. Fighters accomplish that with their fists.