Thread: (Miles get in here!) Ghetto grammar (Evening Standard)

Ghetto grammar robs the young of a proper voice

''Young people are rendering themselves unintelligible to — and often unemployable by — mainstream adult society''

Written by Lindsay Johns

IN THE wake of the riots, last Thursday evening, there was only one topic of conversation among the young people I mentor in Peckham. Thankfully, none of my mentees were involved in the disturbances. Yet almost all told me they had received the mass BBM broadcasts, written in street slang, inviting them to join in the thuggery.
The English language is an incredibly rich inheritance. Yet it is being squandered by so many young people of all races and backgrounds. Across London and other cities it is increasingly fashionable for them to speak in an inarticulate slang full of vacuous words such as “innit” and wilful distortions like “arks” for “ask” or tedious double negatives.
It’s not a question of being a staunch lexical purist. It’s about our attitude to young people and how we educate them. Language is power. The ability for young people to communicate articulately and intelligently is of huge importance, not only for themselves but also for the way in which they are perceived by others. Their educational opportunities and job prospects are all directly affected by the way they choose to speak.
Moreover, the more we are unable to express our feelings through words, the more frustrated we get. For young men and women in the inner-city, that can only be a dangerous thing.
So in my mentoring work I have zero tolerance towards inchoate street slang. As I constantly tell these young people, words are the best weapon you can have in your mental arsenal. Each week in Peckham we have a vocabulary slot, where we teach five new words. Be it ubiquitous, judicious, sardonic, ephemeral or plethora, we teach these young people words which can assist them, be it in GCSE English essays or everyday conversation.
Young people speaking street patois is a spectacular own goal. True, the patois limits their conversation to a select coterie of other young people, making it hard to penetrate if you don’t know the lingo. But in so doing, young people are effectively rendering themselves unintelligible to — and often unemployable by — mainstream adult society. This is really why street slang is anathema to me: it is reckless self-sabotage.
Some educators take a position of cultural relativism. They assert the legitimacy and value of street talk, or at the very least, the importance of teaching young people to “code switch” — how to differentiate in which milieu it is socially acceptable.
I have no time for such an approach. In my experience, young people find it very hard to code switch. Text-speak, poor grammar and street patois routinely pervade the essays I set them, let alone their conversations with me.
Acceptance of “ghetto grammar” amounts to a betrayal of young people, trapping them in stereotypes. The young people I mentor are not stupid — yet their street slang makes them sound stupid and uneducated.
The better they speak, the more others — especially in positions of authority — will be inclined to take them seriously. Embracing street slang leads to disenfranchisement, marginalisation and ultimately the dole queue. Embracing “proper English” unlocks an intellectual feast.

But to help them do so, we must confront this insulting and demeaning acceptance of street slang. We owe it to them: as adults, we do have a duty of linguistic care.

I actually agree with every word of this.

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

Who arksed u?

Innit

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Ghetto grammar robs the young of a proper voice

''Young people are rendering themselves unintelligible to — and often unemployable by — mainstream adult society''

Written by Lindsay Johns

IN THE wake of the riots, last Thursday evening, there was only one topic of conversation among the young people I mentor in Peckham. Thankfully, none of my mentees were involved in the disturbances. Yet almost all told me they had received the mass BBM broadcasts, written in street slang, inviting them to join in the thuggery.
The English language is an incredibly rich inheritance. Yet it is being squandered by so many young people of all races and backgrounds. Across London and other cities it is increasingly fashionable for them to speak in an inarticulate slang full of vacuous words such as “innit” and wilful distortions like “arks” for “ask” or tedious double negatives.
It’s not a question of being a staunch lexical purist. It’s about our attitude to young people and how we educate them. Language is power. The ability for young people to communicate articulately and intelligently is of huge importance, not only for themselves but also for the way in which they are perceived by others. Their educational opportunities and job prospects are all directly affected by the way they choose to speak.
Moreover, the more we are unable to express our feelings through words, the more frustrated we get. For young men and women in the inner-city, that can only be a dangerous thing.
So in my mentoring work I have zero tolerance towards inchoate street slang. As I constantly tell these young people, words are the best weapon you can have in your mental arsenal. Each week in Peckham we have a vocabulary slot, where we teach five new words. Be it ubiquitous, judicious, sardonic, ephemeral or plethora, we teach these young people words which can assist them, be it in GCSE English essays or everyday conversation.
Young people speaking street patois is a spectacular own goal. True, the patois limits their conversation to a select coterie of other young people, making it hard to penetrate if you don’t know the lingo. But in so doing, young people are effectively rendering themselves unintelligible to — and often unemployable by — mainstream adult society. This is really why street slang is anathema to me: it is reckless self-sabotage.
Some educators take a position of cultural relativism. They assert the legitimacy and value of street talk, or at the very least, the importance of teaching young people to “code switch” — how to differentiate in which milieu it is socially acceptable.
I have no time for such an approach. In my experience, young people find it very hard to code switch. Text-speak, poor grammar and street patois routinely pervade the essays I set them, let alone their conversations with me.
Acceptance of “ghetto grammar” amounts to a betrayal of young people, trapping them in stereotypes. The young people I mentor are not stupid — yet their street slang makes them sound stupid and uneducated.
The better they speak, the more others — especially in positions of authority — will be inclined to take them seriously. Embracing street slang leads to disenfranchisement, marginalisation and ultimately the dole queue. Embracing “proper English” unlocks an intellectual feast.

But to help them do so, we must confront this insulting and demeaning acceptance of street slang. We owe it to them: as adults, we do have a duty of linguistic care.

They are talking about CMM when he is posting from his fone

Originally Posted by BIG H

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

Who arksed u?

Innit

Haha, I can understand this for texts on my type of phone which is from the 19th century, but these modern phones can send emails and have keyboards!

Youngsters are beyond lazy and should have their phones observed and be disconnected when this type of language is observed.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Originally Posted by ryanman

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

I love you Ryanman. I really do.

Originally Posted by ryanman

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.

...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

innit though.

Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Originally Posted by ryanman

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.


...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

Agreed, you all sound old, language evolves and the majority of the young grow out of the street language and conform eventually.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Originally Posted by ryanman

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

Well. Several points. Most language is standardised, Spanish for example, began to become under state control in the 1200's.

On the otherhand. The stephen fry argument that language is always evolving.

Thirdly, dialects are kinda cool, if I put on my local dialect people round here have no idea what I'm saying, it feels like a code Plus there is a rich social history to language & dialects which is being eroded.


...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

Agreed, you all sound old, language evolves and the majority of the young grow out of the street language and conform eventually.

Me included

However with this particular 'dialects' increased racial inclusion and (quite phenomenally at the same time) social marginalisation, I feel that 'growing out of it' will no longer become an option.

Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

...but there is no way I would go out with anyone giving it all that 'arks', 'innit' shyte. It would annoy to the point of killing a puppy.

If that's the case then....I've got good news!

Much like the other thread, this all boils down to parents, mentors, and peers not doing their jobs. Children like to push the envelope, they like to test their boundaries, and if you're the person in charge it is your duty to correct them. I once had an English teacher that would ring a bell every single time a student used a speech tick (eg "Like", "Umm", "Ya Know")...I despised that teacher (for other reasons), but I respect and admire him for having the determination and tenacity to establish that tone in his classroom and be unwavering to any and all resistance to it.

I have seen and heard Bill Cosby and more recently Democrat Mayor of Philadelphia Michael Nutter (yes that is his real name) talk about education and this whole "culture" (it's not a culture, it's the lack of respect towards society in general) of ignorance being king amongst the youth and what they say is 100% correct.

I was very pleased upon the return to my old high school that 2 young football (American football) players that I happened to meet addressed me as "Sir", looked me straight in the eye, and gave a proper handshake....that ladies and gentlemen is a winning team...I don't care about the record of the team this year or anything else, their actions showed me that they are capable of respect and do so in a situation where that way of acting is against the grain and I'll be more than pleased to mention it to the head coach next time I see him, I couldn't have been more proud of those young men.

Kids these days know that they have the ability to say anything and act however they want, but they DO NOT realize that restraint in thoughts, feelings, actions, are the foundation of class, culture, and mutual respect. Society rests upon that foundation...I do fear we are moving further away from solid ground with the passing of each year.

Originally Posted by ryanman

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I actually agree with every word of this.

I agree too. Children shouldn't be allowed to get away with these base language forms in the classroom and as a parent I would be extremely annoyed to hear this kind of language in the home. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, I can't control that, but within the domain of the school and perhaps even the workplace it should be controlled and extinguished. Kids are always going to want to subvert language to appear cool and be in some way 'giving it to the establishment', but it is cheap, lazy and ugly.

Again schools need to get strong with classroom discourse and the kinds of verbal interaction that are allowed to take place in classrooms. I am not one for getting too harsh on second language learners coming to terms with a new language, but native speakers who have grown up in a non-corrective environment who are flagrantly abusing their own language? I don't think it is acceptable at all.

Everyone needs to be encouraged to broaden their linguistic and expressive capabilities. Those that can't do so to an effective degree will obviously struggle in life, but that shouldn't mean we give up on everyone and tolerate an open acceptance of crude forms such as 'innit' and excessive use of the word 'like' and so on. The writer of the article makes some valid and fair arguments really.

You know that 'proper' English is a late-19th century construct designed to subdue regional cultural diversity and thus make the whole population more plyable to central government? I thought you were against right-of-centre mechanisms of the state?

No, when it comes down to appropriate use of language I am actually very conservative. I don't think it takes all that much effort to come to terms with a grasp of standard language forms. There are some people around the world learning several languages and many within our own small Island can't even speak their own one effectively. It really needs cleaning up. Sure, speak how you want with your friends, but inside of institutions? Clean it up.