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Thread: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

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    Default Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Case in point..... Luis Ortiz.

    To Wilder fans: avoided, dangerous

    To AJ and Fury fans: old, drug cheat


    Dependable as clockwork. I'll post more examples later.

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    I'm waiting for someone to bring up Rocky Fielding

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Case in point..... Luis Ortiz.

    To Wilder fans: avoided, dangerous

    To AJ and Fury fans: old, drug cheat


    Dependable as clockwork. I'll post more examples later.
    Fury is also a drugs cheat.

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Fury would be another example then.

    First person to beat Wlad and "draw" but really beat Wilder

    Or

    Drug cheat, fought worst opposition ever.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Fury/AJ fans (isn't that an oxymoron?) are correct if they say Ortiz is old (in boxing terms) and a drug cheat (he's TWICE been caught juicing).

    Wilder fans are correct if they say Ortiz is dangerous (Wilder survived by the skin of his teeth in a life or death fight) but wrong if they say Ortiz is avoided (he's fought one championship level fight in his career, the reason Wilder fans overplay him is obvious... he's Wilder's best win. Fact. Wilder's best win is a man that's never fought an alphabet champion let alone beat one, yet is represented by the most powerful men in boxing)
    Last edited by Fenster; 09-08-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    "Old" and "drug cheat" are pretty straightforward, to be sure... but then "avoided" falls into that gray area, doesn't it.

    If you're going to say Wilder fans are "wrong" to say Ortiz has been avoided, you'll have to do a little better than "he's fought one championship level fight in his career." Seems to me that would sort of be the whole definition of being avoided, don't you?

    You can probably find plenty of articles saying Ortiz has been avoided in the past. Whether you choose to believe them or not I guess is up to you.

    The only way to be sure is to "know" that X or Y fighter refused to fight him.

    Oh wait... there's also the matter of promoters making ridiculous, unreasonable offers to the prospective opponent, knowing full well it will be turned down. In which case the claim can be made, "Oh, but we wanted to fight him."

    But Hearn is above those games, isn't he.

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Fury/AJ fans (isn't that an oxymoron?) are correct if they say Ortiz is old (in boxing terms) and a drug cheat (he's TWICE been caught juicing).

    Wilder fans are correct if they say Ortiz is dangerous (Wilder survived by the skin of his teeth in a life or death fight) but wrong if they say Ortiz is avoided (he's fought one championship level fight in his career, the reason Wilder fans overplay him is obvious... he's Wilder's best win. Fact. Wilder's best win is a man that's never fought an alphabet champion let alone beat one, yet is represented by the most powerful men in boxing)
    Well I guess we know which side you are on now

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    "Old" and "drug cheat" are pretty straightforward, to be sure... but then "avoided" falls into that gray area, doesn't it.

    If you're going to say Wilder fans are "wrong" to say Ortiz has been avoided, you'll have to do a little better than "he's fought one championship level fight in his career." Seems to me that would sort of be the whole definition of being avoided, don't you?
    I ended the paragraph with - despite being represented by the most powerful men in boxing. The last line clarifies the start. He's been represented by Golden Boy, Hearn and Al Haymon. HBO/Showtime/Fox/Sky Sports/ESPN, he's been on every major network. Who ducked him? I honestly don't know? I don't know if you mean 1, 2, 3 or 10 fighters?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    The only way to be sure is to "know" that X or Y fighter refused to fight him.
    Feel free to provide the names?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Oh wait... there's also the matter of promoters making ridiculous, unreasonable offers to the prospective opponent, knowing full well it will be turned down. In which case the claim can be made, "Oh, but we wanted to fight him." But Hearn is above those games, isn't he.
    We know for a fact Ortiz turned down a Joshua fight for $7m plus rematch upside. His manager, Jay Jimenez, publicly apologised to Hearn for "dropping the ball" and "fucking up." Even his trainer went public claiming they were "fucked over" - NOT by Hearn, their own team. They fought Wilder for 500k, less than 7-times the Joshua offer, without the HUGE rematch upside.
    Last edited by Fenster; 09-09-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Fury/AJ fans (isn't that an oxymoron?) are correct if they say Ortiz is old (in boxing terms) and a drug cheat (he's TWICE been caught juicing).

    Wilder fans are correct if they say Ortiz is dangerous (Wilder survived by the skin of his teeth in a life or death fight) but wrong if they say Ortiz is avoided (he's fought one championship level fight in his career, the reason Wilder fans overplay him is obvious... he's Wilder's best win. Fact. Wilder's best win is a man that's never fought an alphabet champion let alone beat one, yet is represented by the most powerful men in boxing)
    Well I guess we know which side you are on now
    I didn't realise there was a "side?" I provided facts, that's all. (I have no idea what this thread is about)
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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Fury/AJ fans (isn't that an oxymoron?) are correct if they say Ortiz is old (in boxing terms) and a drug cheat (he's TWICE been caught juicing).

    Wilder fans are correct if they say Ortiz is dangerous (Wilder survived by the skin of his teeth in a life or death fight) but wrong if they say Ortiz is avoided (he's fought one championship level fight in his career, the reason Wilder fans overplay him is obvious... he's Wilder's best win. Fact. Wilder's best win is a man that's never fought an alphabet champion let alone beat one, yet is represented by the most powerful men in boxing)
    Well I guess we know which side you are on now
    I didn't realise there was a "side?" I provided facts, that's all. (I have no idea what this thread is about)

    Ok I'll explain it, seeing as to how it's tough to get in too many words in a thread title.

    Blatant favoritism skews how boxing fans see the same fighter. To AJ fans who dis Wilder, Ortiz is just a Depends-wearing drug cheat who presumably would've been destroyed by AJ. To Wilder fans, Ortiz is a dangerous, much-avoided fighter who Wilder stepped into the ring with. Simple as. Same thing applies to other fighters where there are fans and haters.

    Hope this helps.

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    Default Re: Who a fighter is (to some) depends on who he's fought (or not)

    haha haha haha brilliant

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