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Thread: How good was Floyd?

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    Default How good was Floyd?

    Did Floyd cherry-pick, or was he just so good that he made his opponents look bad? Or both?

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Floyd was good at the lower weights when he was pretty boy. He missed some good boxers like Frietas/Casamajor but who he fought were just as good Corrales. Missed out big legacy fights against Kostya and Hatton at light welterweight.

    At welterweight he annoyed me by not taking on Margarito/Williams but chose Baldimor and Judah.

    Made his money fights against Oscar, Manny Pac (way too late) and McGregor.

    So Floyd was OK. Not TBE.
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    It would be hard for anybody in history to beat Floyd Mayweather. Not saying they couldn't do it, but it would be a monumental task. And I mean monumental

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    To give you an idea, people said he was better at the lighter weights, which makes sense. Younger, faster etcetera. But even at 147, coming out of retirement the P4P list had
    1-Pac
    2-JMM
    3-Mosley

    He fought them all AFTER COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT. And another fighter that was number 1 P4P for years in Canelo. This is his not as good portion of his career in many minds

    To give you a comparison so you can understand how unfairly people look at his career. The great Monster Inoue is looked at as having a sterling CV and his best opponent is (by boxeoguide) number 32 pound for pound.

    I can pull up people that absolutely hate him, like Oscar Delahoya for example saying “you have to look at what he’s done, he might be the best ever”.

    I’m not saying he is, but Diego Corrales was a killing machine when Floyd fought him, and made him look easy. When doing his “after coming out of retirement” bit I left off HOF fighters! That’s how great he was

    He was so good people still talk about a sparring session he lost, his first day back in the gym against a fight ready fighter. A fricking sparring session, 1!
    Last edited by Ron Swanson; 07-31-2022 at 12:43 AM.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    floyd was very good but his record has glaring holes & some of his wins look better on paper than in reality
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Floyd took off time many times in his career even in the early days and these retirements should not mean he was better than he really was. They may have been managerial and promotional related but taking on a blown up welterweight in JMM and not bothering to make weight shows his class.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Technically excellent and best defensive fighter ever.

    Never took any risks with opponents. That's not to say they weren't decent opponents though.
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
    Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
    So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
    Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
    Deserves respect even by the haters.
    Former Undisputed 4 belt Prediction champion. Still P4P and People’s Champion.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    In my opinion, Floyd was great. He was that rare athlete who was naturally gifted but also an extremely hard worker who had phenomenal skills and ring IQ. I’m not sure if you were asking how “good” his skills were or how “good” his career was, but for me the answer to both is “great”.

    Floyd started at 130 and was not a big man (Chico Corrales was much larger at 130), yet he went up and won vs elite 147/154 pounders. He was able to accomplish this through speed, stamina, and because he was so much better/ more skilled over everyone else. Starting with his career, he had some great wins over Chico (unified a portion of the belts and cleaned out 130 since Freitas and Casamayor weren’t in a rush to fight him), won the lineal title at 135 from a very tough/formidable Jose Luis Castillo, stopped the undefeated Ricky Hatton, and beat Oscar, Shane, Canelo, and Manny. I don’t hold his lack of knockouts at the higher weights against Floyd, I feel he was like Sweet Pea Whitaker in that he moved up way past his ideal weight and still dominated but didn’t have the pop to knock the much larger men out.

    As great as Floyd’s career was, I feel his skills inside the ring were even more impressive. Watch his fights vs Chico and Hatton and try and name one thing Floyd didn’t do masterfully. Great jab. Great footwork. Great counters. Great work to the body. Great defense (multi-layered with head movement, slipping, parrying, blocking…etc.). Good punching power. Great footwork. Fighting inside and outside, off the ropes and center of the ring, and dictating pace, distance, and location of the fight. Boxing IQ that allowed him to make adjustments and completely take over competitive fights.

    I can see the arguments against Floyd. While I don’t agree with them, I can see how people have come to those perspectives, especially considering the emotional reaction to the Money Maywesther/TBE schtick he moved to later in his career. I think Floyd was very much like Ali and Ric Flair in that he understood the heel/bad guy creates more passion and therefore sells more tickets. Floyd was a great fighter, was a great promoter ( of himself), and is a successful businessman.
    Last edited by mikeeod; 07-31-2022 at 12:08 PM.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

    Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.
    Last edited by VG_Addict; 07-31-2022 at 01:30 PM.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
    Did Floyd cherry-pick, or was he just so good that he made his opponents look bad? Or both?
    He was that good. Why do we have to ask this question? What more do we need? He beat everyone put in front of him. I knew he was special when he beat Corrales...
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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
    What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

    Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.
    I think the prime PAC fight would have helped push his case higher. Floyd beat Hatton at 147 but they were the same size and that is the exact fight it would’ve been at 140, so he gets full credit for that one in my book. Freitas and Casamayor would have been good wins- but both of those guys were around Corrales’s level and wouldn’t have added much at all. Dorrin and Paul Spadafora were average fighters on the level of Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Famoso Hernandez…etc., they become footnotes like the others Floyd beat at their level. I would’ve liked to have seen the Bradley fight but again, what could he have done against Floyd to win? It would have been interesting but Floyd was levels better.

    I can see a case for ranking Floyd in the top 10 of ATGs. Difficult for me personally to rank him over Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard…etc., but he accomplished so much that I can’t see how he couldn’t be top 15.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeeod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
    What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

    Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.
    I think the prime PAC fight would have helped push his case higher. Floyd beat Hatton at 147 but they were the same size and that is the exact fight it would’ve been at 140, so he gets full credit for that one in my book. Freitas and Casamayor would have been good wins- but both of those guys were around Corrales’s level and wouldn’t have added much at all. Dorrin and Paul Spadafora were average fighters on the level of Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Famoso Hernandez…etc., they become footnotes like the others Floyd beat at their level. I would’ve liked to have seen the Bradley fight but again, what could he have done against Floyd to win? It would have been interesting but Floyd was levels better.

    I can see a case for ranking Floyd in the top 10 of ATGs. Difficult for me personally to rank him over Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard…etc., but he accomplished so much that I can’t see how he couldn’t be top 15.
    I can't see Bradley beating Floyd, or even having any real success. Everything Bradley does well, Floyd does better.

    And it's telling that Spadafora is more known for giving Floyd trouble in sparring than for anything he did in his pro career. He went life and death with Sosa and Dorin. Floyd gets criticized for "ducking" Spadafora, but I don't think anyone would realistically pick Spadafora to beat him. I doubt even Spadafora himself believes he would have beaten Floyd.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
    Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
    So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
    Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
    Deserves respect even by the haters.
    jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in
    Apply shame. Apply fame. The crook and the flail.

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    Default Re: How good was Floyd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Primo Carnera View Post
    Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
    Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
    So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
    Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
    Deserves respect even by the haters.
    jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in
    I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

    There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

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