How good was Floyd?

[Primo Carnera]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

[mikeeod]

In my opinion, Floyd was great. He was that rare athlete who was naturally gifted but also an extremely hard worker who had phenomenal skills and ring IQ. I’m not sure if you were asking how “good” his skills were or how “good” his career was, but for me the answer to both is “great”.

Floyd started at 130 and was not a big man (Chico Corrales was much larger at 130), yet he went up and won vs elite 147/154 pounders. He was able to accomplish this through speed, stamina, and because he was so much better/ more skilled over everyone else. Starting with his career, he had some great wins over Chico (unified a portion of the belts and cleaned out 130 since Freitas and Casamayor weren’t in a rush to fight him), won the lineal title at 135 from a very tough/formidable Jose Luis Castillo, stopped the undefeated Ricky Hatton, and beat Oscar, Shane, Canelo, and Manny. I don’t hold his lack of knockouts at the higher weights against Floyd, I feel he was like Sweet Pea Whitaker in that he moved up way past his ideal weight and still dominated but didn’t have the pop to knock the much larger men out.

As great as Floyd’s career was, I feel his skills inside the ring were even more impressive. Watch his fights vs Chico and Hatton and try and name one thing Floyd didn’t do masterfully. Great jab. Great footwork. Great counters. Great work to the body. Great defense (multi-layered with head movement, slipping, parrying, blocking…etc.). Good punching power. Great footwork. Fighting inside and outside, off the ropes and center of the ring, and dictating pace, distance, and location of the fight. Boxing IQ that allowed him to make adjustments and completely take over competitive fights.

I can see the arguments against Floyd. While I don’t agree with them, I can see how people have come to those perspectives, especially considering the emotional reaction to the Money Maywesther/TBE schtick he moved to later in his career. I think Floyd was very much like Ali and Ric Flair in that he understood the heel/bad guy creates more passion and therefore sells more tickets. Floyd was a great fighter, was a great promoter ( of himself), and is a successful businessman.

[VG_Addict]

What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.

[mikeeod]

What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.

I think the prime PAC fight would have helped push his case higher. Floyd beat Hatton at 147 but they were the same size and that is the exact fight it would’ve been at 140, so he gets full credit for that one in my book. Freitas and Casamayor would have been good wins- but both of those guys were around Corrales’s level and wouldn’t have added much at all. Dorrin and Paul Spadafora were average fighters on the level of Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Famoso Hernandez…etc., they become footnotes like the others Floyd beat at their level. I would’ve liked to have seen the Bradley fight but again, what could he have done against Floyd to win? It would have been interesting but Floyd was levels better.

I can see a case for ranking Floyd in the top 10 of ATGs. Difficult for me personally to rank him over Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard…etc., but he accomplished so much that I can’t see how he couldn’t be top 15.

[VG_Addict]

What if Floyd fought and beat Casamayor and Freitas at 130, Dorin and Spadafora at 135, Hatton at 140, prime Pacquiao in 2011, Bradley in 2012, and Canelo without a catchweight in 2013?

Where would he rank all-time? Top 10? Even beating prime Pacquiao and Canelo without a catchweight would dramatically increase his ATG standing. I think doing all of the above would give him the best resume since SRL.

I think the prime PAC fight would have helped push his case higher. Floyd beat Hatton at 147 but they were the same size and that is the exact fight it would’ve been at 140, so he gets full credit for that one in my book. Freitas and Casamayor would have been good wins- but both of those guys were around Corrales’s level and wouldn’t have added much at all. Dorrin and Paul Spadafora were average fighters on the level of Angel Manfredy, Jesus Chavez, Famoso Hernandez…etc., they become footnotes like the others Floyd beat at their level. I would’ve liked to have seen the Bradley fight but again, what could he have done against Floyd to win? It would have been interesting but Floyd was levels better.

I can see a case for ranking Floyd in the top 10 of ATGs. Difficult for me personally to rank him over Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Leonard…etc., but he accomplished so much that I can’t see how he couldn’t be top 15.

I can't see Bradley beating Floyd, or even having any real success. Everything Bradley does well, Floyd does better.

And it's telling that Spadafora is more known for giving Floyd trouble in sparring than for anything he did in his pro career. He went life and death with Sosa and Dorin. Floyd gets criticized for "ducking" Spadafora, but I don't think anyone would realistically pick Spadafora to beat him. I doubt even Spadafora himself believes he would have beaten Floyd.

[TIC]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

[mikeeod]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

[TIC]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

shane was years removed from his days at one thirty five, yes he did have the win over antonio but personally i think the miguel cotto fight took more out of antonio than is realized. rivky was champion at one forty & technically undefeated but had already been shown up at welter by luis collazo. those were good wins but not close to fifty fifty in my opinion. there were threats but the fights never came to fruition for whatever reasons. joel & acelino would have been better than jesus & carlos. paul & leonard would have been better than victoriano & phillip. kostya would have been better than anyone floyd fought at one forty & floyd should have fought miguel or antonio instead of retiring & leaving them to fight each other. there was also winky where a deal was in place but floyd pulled out & sergio at one sixty for the middleweight championship. don't get me wrong floyd probably beats them all but i can't give floyd credit for fights he didn't fight. floyd had the ability to actually be tbe but unfortunately he missed the opportunities to do so in the ring

[Ron Swanson]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

shane was years removed from his days at one thirty five, yes he did have the win over antonio but personally i think the miguel cotto fight took more out of antonio than is realized. rivky was champion at one forty & technically undefeated but had already been shown up at welter by luis collazo. those were good wins but not close to fifty fifty in my opinion. there were threats but the fights never came to fruition for whatever reasons. joel & acelino would have been better than jesus & carlos. paul & leonard would have been better than victoriano & phillip. kostya would have been better than anyone floyd fought at one forty & floyd should have fought miguel or antonio instead of retiring & leaving them to fight each other. there was also winky where a deal was in place but floyd pulled out & sergio at one sixty for the middleweight championship. don't get me wrong floyd probably beats them all but i can't give floyd credit for fights he didn't fight. floyd had the ability to actually be tbe but unfortunately he missed the opportunities to do so in the ring

You’re supposed to judge fighters on who they did fight. In 20 years as a pro and 5 weight divisions of course you can’t fight everyone

[TIC]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

shane was years removed from his days at one thirty five, yes he did have the win over antonio but personally i think the miguel cotto fight took more out of antonio than is realized. rivky was champion at one forty & technically undefeated but had already been shown up at welter by luis collazo. those were good wins but not close to fifty fifty in my opinion. there were threats but the fights never came to fruition for whatever reasons. joel & acelino would have been better than jesus & carlos. paul & leonard would have been better than victoriano & phillip. kostya would have been better than anyone floyd fought at one forty & floyd should have fought miguel or antonio instead of retiring & leaving them to fight each other. there was also winky where a deal was in place but floyd pulled out & sergio at one sixty for the middleweight championship. don't get me wrong floyd probably beats them all but i can't give floyd credit for fights he didn't fight. floyd had the ability to actually be tbe but unfortunately he missed the opportunities to do so in the ring

You’re supposed to judge fighters on who they did fight. In 20 years as a pro and 5 weight divisions of course you can’t fight everyone

i am judging floyd on what he did in the ring. i never said he had to fight everyone, just listed potential threats to floyd is response to the previous post

[Master]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

shane was years removed from his days at one thirty five, yes he did have the win over antonio but personally i think the miguel cotto fight took more out of antonio than is realized. rivky was champion at one forty & technically undefeated but had already been shown up at welter by luis collazo. those were good wins but not close to fifty fifty in my opinion. there were threats but the fights never came to fruition for whatever reasons. joel & acelino would have been better than jesus & carlos. paul & leonard would have been better than victoriano & phillip. kostya would have been better than anyone floyd fought at one forty & floyd should have fought miguel or antonio instead of retiring & leaving them to fight each other. there was also winky where a deal was in place but floyd pulled out & sergio at one sixty for the middleweight championship. don't get me wrong floyd probably beats them all but i can't give floyd credit for fights he didn't fight. floyd had the ability to actually be tbe but unfortunately he missed the opportunities to do so in the ring

You’re supposed to judge fighters on who they did fight. In 20 years as a pro and 5 weight divisions of course you can’t fight everyone

i am judging floyd on what he did in the ring. i never said he had to fight everyone, just listed potential threats to floyd is response to the previous post

When you compare the ATG you have to look at what they did not do but should have done to separate them. Floyd has gaps and does not compare to the true greats.

[Ron Swanson]

Floyd varies opinions like no other boxer. And I’m not saying he was TBE. But he has every right to put his name up for it.
Look at his career and tell me a fight he didn’t win COMFORTABLY. Yes he had a moment in the Moseley fight, yes Maidana made a nuisance of himself with him. But I don’t think there was a fight where he got a decision he shouldn’t have got.
So with all that in mind, there was probably more left in the tank.
Btw, people say that future P4Per Canelo was a boy when they fought, but he was a 23 year old with over 40 fights under his belt. And Floyd was 37 ffs! Who else does what he does at 37?
Deserves respect even by the haters.

jose luis castillo one? i give floyd huge respect for the immediate rematch with el temible. floyd could have probably beaten anyone on his night, the jose luis rematch for example but i can't give him credit for fights he never fought. for me after jose luis there was never a challenge that was close to fifty fifty going in

I thought Castillo won the first fight. I give Floyd a ton of credit for the immediate rematch as well. I feel like the Mosley fight and Hatton fight were both 50/50. Mosley was coming off the destruction or Margo and ranked #3 p4p. Hatton was unified champ at 140, undefeated, and ranked p4p. Those were good wins.

There really weren’t many threats to Floyd who stayed relevant long enough to hype the fight. Judah had hype after destroying Spinks, but then lost to Baldomir. Margo had hype and lost to Paul Williams and then was blown out by Shane. Paul Williams had hype and then lost to Quintana and Martinez. Manny was the one available prime fighter he never fought. Full disclosure, I’m team Manny, but even with tHat I don’t think Floyd ducked Manny. I feel like both fighters negotiated themselVes out of the biggest fight of their generation. It was past its sell by date when THEY got back around to it.

Appreciate your opinions on this but the last part really gets me. The fight was agreed. And Manny backed out. For people to then blame both sides is again simply not fair to Floyd.

That fight was never going to trouble Floyd, he had better legs in 2010 to better set Manny up and he was always going to set Manny up. But that is opinion. The fight didn’t happen in March of 2011 because Manny backed out, that is fact.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Floyd was running round in circles but if he stood and fight, toe to toe, he gets knocked out old

[Primo Carnera]

Floyd was running round in circles but if he stood and fight, toe to toe, he gets knocked out old

Well if that is the case, dare I suggest it’s pretty smart not to fight toe to toe? Or should he just get knocked out to please you.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Floyd was running round in circles but if he stood and fight, toe to toe, he gets knocked out old

Well if that is the case, dare I suggest it’s pretty smart not to fight toe to toe? Or should he just get knocked out to please you.

Yes he was extremely smart. I said very clearly that nobody in history would have an easy time beating him at his weights. Just pointing out that he was lacking that aspect which rounded out great fighters like Henry Armstrong and sugar Ray Robinson who could run around in circles but then also slug it out unlike Floyd, but by no means should he stand there and get knocked out just because I want him to.