A question regarding Ring Featherweight rankings

Why is it that the Ring magazine rates Robert Guerro as the number one fighter in the featherweight division over Chris John?

Given that John is unbeaten and has reigned as WBA champ since late 2003. He holds a win over Juan Manuel Marquez and has made 9 straight defenses of his title.

Guerro on the other hand won his belt 3 years later, lost it only for the fight result against Salido to be overturned because of a failed drugs test on the part of Salido. But there was no doubt Salido won the actual fight.

Since regaining the vacant belt he's made two defenses.

So why is he better than Chris John, surely John's resume is better, at least on paper and even if the Ring don't agree with John's win over Marquez they have to acknowledge it as it was the official result? :confused:

Seeing as John beat THE man at featherweight in Marquez this rating is as bizarre to me as if they had Arthur Abraham above Kelly Pavlik in the middleweight rankings

Don't know, maybe they factor in that they believe that JMM was robbed but should official ratings really take that into account? John is becoming irrelevant but still.

They also have Linares at 7 which seems a little low even though his accomplishments don't quite match up to how good people think he is. Still he's behind Naoki Matsuda who's number 6 which seems odd, the guy's resume is lacking, not to mention I've seen him fight on the same card as Linares and he's not that great.

John has the one robbery victory over JMM, and besides that he really doesn't have any significant victory's under his belt.

He just defends his alphabet title in Indonesia against sub-par competition, and may end up retiring undefeated as it looks like he many never leave the safety of his home court.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

John has the one robbery victory over JMM, and besides that he really doesn't have any significant victory's under his belt.

He just defends his alphabet title in Indonesia against sub-par competition, and may end up retiring undefeated as it looks like he many never leave the safety of his home court.

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But as Oumafan says whether the Ring felt it was a robbbery or not is irrelevent surely. He won a UD, that was the result and he should be rated accordingly?

If they based on their own opinion of dodgy decisions then Casamayor should have dropped down after his 'win' over Santa Cruz. Maybe he was and I missed that?

I bought Boxing Monthly mag the other day at Manchester Airport and some of those rankings really do suck.

I don't have much time but I'm answering to your PM bil. To be honest,I can't really give a conclusive answer other than,just as orgs have some strange choices for rankings,similarly the RING(which is far better than the orgs) is still not exempt from making mistakes.

John has defended v JMM(questionable decision) and also guys like Caballaro and a few other semi decent guys which are just as good as The Ghost's best wins over Honorio and Litzau,and add in John's 0 and title defences and it is clearly better than the Ghost's record. Also remember that Guerrero has lost to Gamaliel Diaz(who got his ass handed to him by Jorge Linares) and he also got outhustled and busted up at times by Orlando Salido(although it was changed to ND because of failed drug test).Needless to say,he should not have struggled with guys like that in the first place.

Personally,for the sake of consistency,I'd have John first,I mean Casamayor retained his number 1 place with the fight with Santz Cruz!I think Linares is far far too low,I think his wins over Larios and Diaz are better than wins over Litzau and Honorio if I'm honest. Remember,Larios took Manny and Isreal Vazquez 12 rounds and Linares stopped him!!!

Phew,so there's my answer. Just flawed rankings I guess but I totally agree,NO WAY Guerrero is number 1. Heck,Luevano's wins over Nicky Cook and Terdsak Jandeang(and he's beaten 1 other RING 10 ranked fighter) means he's beaten more ranked fighters than Guerrero sooo yeah,error on their part.No way Guerrero is number 1.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I don't have much time but I'm answering to your PM bil. To be honest,I can't really give a conclusive answer other than,just as orgs have some strange choices for rankings,similarly the RING(which is far better than the orgs) is still not exempt from making mistakes.

John has defended v JMM(questionable decision) and also guys like Caballaro and a few other semi decent guys which are just as good as The Ghost's best wins over Honorio and Litzau,and add in John's 0 and title defences and it is clearly better than the Ghost's record. Also remember that Guerrero has lost to Gamaliel Diaz(who got his ass handed to him by Jorge Linares) and he also got outhustled and busted up at times by Orlando Salido(although it was changed to ND because of failed drug test).Needless to say,he should not have struggled with guys like that in the first place.

Personally,for the sake of consistency,I'd have John first,I mean Casamayor retained his number 1 place with the fight with Santz Cruz!I think Linares is far far too low,I think his wins over Larios and Diaz are better than wins over Litzau and Honorio if I'm honest. Remember,Larios took Manny and Isreal Vazquez 12 rounds and Linares stopped him!!!

Phew,so there's my answer. Just flawed rankings I guess but I totally agree,NO WAY Guerrero is number 1. Heck,Luevano's wins over Nicky Cook and Terdsak Jandeang(and he's beaten 1 other RING 10 ranked fighter) means he's beaten more ranked fighters than Guerrero sooo yeah,error on their part.No way Guerrero is number 1.

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HEY! I was expecting you to ridicule me for my lack of knowledge on this subject.

Seems I'm finally getting to know these little guys after all :woot22:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

John has the one robbery victory over JMM, and besides that he really doesn't have any significant victory's under his belt.

He just defends his alphabet title in Indonesia against sub-par competition, and may end up retiring undefeated as it looks like he many never leave the safety of his home court.

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But as Oumafan says whether the Ring felt it was a robbbery or not is irrelevent surely. He won a UD, that was the result and he should be rated accordingly?

If they based on their own opinion of dodgy decisions then Casamayor should have dropped down after his 'win' over Santa Cruz. Maybe he was and I missed that?

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I think you are confused. Casamayor was the champ and he won a robbery against Santa Cruz. Thus he remains the champ. But The John vs JMM was not for the World Title, it was only for a paper title which The Ring does not recognize. Had It been for The Ring Title, then yes, John would still be champ.

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

John has the one robbery victory over JMM, and besides that he really doesn't have any significant victory's under his belt.

He just defends his alphabet title in Indonesia against sub-par competition, and may end up retiring undefeated as it looks like he many never leave the safety of his home court.

---

But as Oumafan says whether the Ring felt it was a robbbery or not is irrelevent surely. He won a UD, that was the result and he should be rated accordingly?

If they based on their own opinion of dodgy decisions then Casamayor should have dropped down after his 'win' over Santa Cruz. Maybe he was and I missed that?

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I think you are confused. Casamayor was the champ and he won a robbery against Santa Cruz. Thus he remains the champ. But The John vs JMM was not for the World Title, it was only for a paper title which The Ring does not recognize. Had It been for The Ring Title, then yes, John would still be champ.

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So when did Guerro fight for the Ring Title?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

But as Oumafan says whether the Ring felt it was a robbbery or not is irrelevent surely. He won a UD, that was the result and he should be rated accordingly?

If they based on their own opinion of dodgy decisions then Casamayor should have dropped down after his 'win' over Santa Cruz. Maybe he was and I missed that?

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I think you are confused. Casamayor was the champ and he won a robbery against Santa Cruz. Thus he remains the champ. But The John vs JMM was not for the World Title, it was only for a paper title which The Ring does not recognize. Had It been for The Ring Title, then yes, John would still be champ.

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So when did Guerro fight for the Ring Title?

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Guerro isn't the champion. The title is vacant.

Boxing: Ratings

The title will remain vacant until the #1 contender fights the #2 contender.

I'm with Gamo. Guerrero is no way at #1.

CJ in #2?.. WTF:confused:

#7 Jorge Linares would defeat both of them comfortably.

I can only assume that they regard Guerrero's recent work better than John's. The way he destroyed Abazi, Honorio & Litzau 2 of which were ranked may look more impressive than John's last 4 opponents.