Re: liston ali and the mob
think the black muslim stuff is a load of rubbish not sure tho
Re: liston ali and the mob
You know its not a very well known fact, but Sonny Liston wasn't as bad minded as people thought.
Sonny was afraid of needles;)
Re: liston ali and the mob
What most people dont realize is, Liston was legitimatly afraid of crazy people, and he was totally convinced that Ali was out of his mind. He was looking for a place to sit down in the second fight,he had given him everything he had in the first(including some powder in the eyes) and still couldnt stop him.
In the second fight,he didnt even want to be there
Re: liston ali and the mob
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
What most people dont realize is, Liston was legitimatly afraid of crazy people, and he was totally convinced that Ali was out of his mind. He was looking for a place to sit down in the second fight,he had given him everything he had in the first(including some powder in the eyes) and still couldnt stop him.
In the second fight,he didnt even want to be there
I don't believe that for a minute being afraid of crazy people. In the big house there are many crazy people and Liston had been there a few times and done some serious ass whooping. The whole thing with crazy people came from Ferdie Pachaceo. Ali's cornermen. From my research the second fight was a total set-up. Why would a heavyweight championship fight only take place a maximum capacity of 2000 people in a High School Gymnasium. Especially with someone who was so flamboyant,contraversial and interesting as Ali. Many people would have loved to have seen this fight in MSG. Only 2 camera's I believed filmed the fight with only photographer's around ringside. Again Liston being hit on the temple as people say but we wll never see the flush shot except those people on that side of the ring who were also in Ali's corner to cheer for him. He went down flopped over and his eyes were clear then flopped back over onto his back as if he were hurting badly. Then he get's up when Jersey Joe check's the count from ringside Ali lunges in on a suppposedly weary Liston but hands go up faster then hell then start's ducking and slipping not being hit by 1 punch then Jersey Joe jumps back in.Now if he were so hurt how would he be ducking and slipping and not losing his balance.
My opinion Liston threw the fight and there is always a very dark cloud over this match it was just too unreal.Liston a man who would take on 5 cops at a time smacking him over the head billy clubs get's knocked down from a counter " step and fetch" right hand.In which was thrown improperly from the get go When the punch supposedly landed Ali's foot is not planted therefore sacrificing power so on that night Ali had the heaviest punch in the heavyweight history. Another thing Big George followed Liston around and said he would never talk to a man who was strung out on dope let alone use it. It was also noted that Liston owed the mob tons of money in his biography. IMO the fix was in and the mob owned Liston's ass on that night.
Re: liston ali and the mob
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fightfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
What most people dont realize is, Liston was legitimatly afraid of crazy people, and he was totally convinced that Ali was out of his mind. He was looking for a place to sit down in the second fight,he had given him everything he had in the first(including some powder in the eyes) and still couldnt stop him.
In the second fight,he didnt even want to be there
I don't believe that for a minute being afraid of crazy people. In the big house there are many crazy people and Liston had been there a few times and done some serious ass whooping. The whole thing with crazy people came from Ferdie Pachaceo. Ali's cornermen. From my research the second fight was a total set-up. Why would a heavyweight championship fight only take place a maximum capacity of 2000 people in a High School Gymnasium. Especially with someone who was so flamboyant,contraversial and interesting as Ali. Many people would have loved to have seen this fight in MSG. Only 2 camera's I believed filmed the fight with only photographer's around ringside. Again Liston being hit on the temple as people say but we wll never see the flush shot except those people on that side of the ring who were also in Ali's corner to cheer for him. He went down flopped over and his eyes were clear then flopped back over onto his back as if he were hurting badly. Then he get's up when Jersey Joe check's the count from ringside Ali lunges in on a suppposedly weary Liston but hands go up faster then hell then start's ducking and slipping not being hit by 1 punch then Jersey Joe jumps back in.Now if he were so hurt how would he be ducking and slipping and not losing his balance.
My opinion Liston threw the fight and there is always a very dark cloud over this match it was just too unreal.Liston a man who would take on 5 cops at a time smacking him over the head billy clubs get's knocked down from a counter " step and fetch" right hand.In which was thrown improperly from the get go When the punch supposedly landed Ali's foot is not planted therefore sacrificing power so on that night Ali had the heaviest punch in the heavyweight history. Another thing Big George followed Liston around and said he would never talk to a man who was strung out on dope let alone use it. It was also noted that Liston owed the mob tons of money in his biography. IMO the fix was in and the mob owned Liston's ass on that night.
Thats part of why he was afraid of crazy people,it was apparently a legitimate phobia by the time he fought Ali the second time. Then Ali did the trick with his heart rate,and flat out convinced Liston he was skarkers nuts. Ali did hit him, but it was all Liston wanting to get the hell out of there
Re: liston ali and the mob
Both fighst ended controversially and I i duno if the mob had anything to do with it but Liston defo threw the 2nd fight .
Re: liston ali and the mob
It was a solid punch which dazed Liston. He wanted and did carry on until Nat told Jersey Joe to stop the fight.
Re: liston ali and the mob
I don't care what anyone says the 2nd fight was for certain fixed if i remember rightly thats why only 2'000+ people only went to see the fight or something like that.........
The punch was done on a show with computers to show you from different angles how the punch landed and it was only grazing shot and the whole idea of Sonny Liston being afraid of crazy people is not a good excuse at all and it just seems to me like Muhammad Ali fans are grasping at straws with that comment..........
Sonny Liston used to get hit over the head with batons in prison and guards struggled to get him down do people really believe a grazing shot from Muhammad Ali would do all that to Sonny Liston ? and did you see how Sonny Liston acted on the floor stumbling on the canvas like he had been shot by a shotgun please.
Re: liston ali and the mob
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
I don't care what anyone says the 2nd fight was for certain fixed if i remember rightly thats why only 2'000+ people only went to see the fight or something like that.........
The punch was done on a show with computers to show you from different angles how the punch landed and it was only grazing shot and the whole idea of Sonny Liston being afraid of crazy people is not a good excuse at all and it just seems to me like Muhammad Ali fans are grasping at straws with that comment..........
Sonny Liston used to get hit over the head with batons in prison and guards struggled to get him down do people really believe a grazing shot from Muhammad Ali would do all that to Sonny Liston ? and did you see how Sonny Liston acted on the floor stumbling on the canvas like he had been shot by a shotgun please.
Basically I stated pretty much all of that so thankyou for making a little bit more clear then I could. To whomever stated they found that it was a flush shot where is the evidence?. No where there is not a clear shot of it anywhere The only people who seen where ALi's corner. As for the first fight to look back. There are many interview's with Angelo Dundee two especially that contradict the first fight.In the interview Angelo say's Muhammed came back to the corner saying his eye's were burning so he stuck his finger in his eyes put it in his eye's and it burned indicating Liston had put something on the gloves.Hell even the movie say's Liston put something on his gloves.The second interview the interviewer asks do you think Liston did anything to his gloves.Angelo says no it was just getting hit in the eye and it started to swell, so I gave him 1 instruction RUN.
Re: liston ali and the mob
I dunno if it was fixed, maybe....but that punch was not a strong enough punch to ko Liston.
he coulda just gave up... cause he was frustrated...kinda like Tyson only he did not bite:flame:
