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over the past year or so theres been alot of talk about kelly pavlik being a throwback fighter from the same mould as say marvin hagler in terms of toughness and resilience, tommy hearns in physicality and power. but how would pavlik have done against the past middle and light heavyweights? (ive added light heavyweight because pavlik is a big middle even by todays standards). it would be good to hear what you think on the subject.
H'ed have punchers chance against most, i.e Hearns, but Hagler, Monzon, Hopkins, RJJ etc would own him imo
He would beat Hearns imo.
McCallum, Jones, Hopkins, Eubank, Hagler the list is endless that would school him.
I like it... Pavlikfan posts something about Pavlik and the first two replies are Anti-Pavlik. Well, it's true he has his weaknesses. But seriously, this guy has some real strength. I think that we could all agree that Hearns would have a hard time with him. I think Hagler would take it the distance, and edge him. RJJ would give him a fit.
He would beat Hopkins, Winky, Eubank, and Calzaghe. I have to say he is no slouch. He has really cleaned out his division fairly quickly. All the people he beat have beaten the good prospects, so we'll just have to see him pack on the pounds and applying the pressure to other divisions.
Lets not get carried away over Pavlik. He's not in the league of a Tommy Hearns or a Marvin Hagler or any of the greats because he hasn't accomplished a percentage of what those guys did.
The only guy I'd give him a chance against would be Hearns, only because of Hearns chin, but it'd be a shootout and whoever landed the first big shot(s) would win IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
That is probably that daftest Pavlik loonacy love ive ever read:
He would beat Winky, Eubank and Calzaghe prime 4 prime!
May as well throw in Benn and Mcallum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its posts like this drivvel that turns purists against the likable Pavlik.
Utter tripe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavlikfan
wait wait wait a minute there, i like pavlik just as much as any other pavlik fans but lets wait till he fight some more big names then u can put him in the ring with some great fighters from the past not right now buddy.
We don't know how he would do against the past Light Heavyweights, because he has never fought there. So lets wait until he fights Hopkins before we start debating that.
Kelly Pavlik vs Carlos Monzon: Monzon by KO in 10
Kelly Pavlik vs Marvin Hagler: Hagler by TKO in 11
Kelly Pavlik vs Chris Eubank: Tough one Eubank did often get outworked by lesser fighters, but at his best he had good workrate and a hell of a chin. I say Eubank stops him late on.
Kelly Pavlik vs Nigel Benn: Benn by KO in 3
Kelly Pavlik vs SRR: SRR by TKO in 12
Kelly Pavlik vs Bernard Hopkins: The young Hopkins had the workrate, the chin, and the boxing skills to beat Pavlik. I'd say Hopkins by TKO in 11 similar to Hagler.
Kelly Pavlik vs RJJ: RJJ by TKO in 8
Kelly Pavlik vs Julian Jackson: Jackson by KO in 2
Kelly Pavlik vs Michael Nunn: Nunn by UD
Kelly Pavlik vs Thomas Hearns: Unless we see another Iran Barkley moment, Hearns should stop Pavlik early.
Kelly Pavlik vs Mike McCallum: McCallum by UD
I like Kelly Pavlik but i find it hard for him to beat any of the names above.
How has Kelly Pavlik cleaned out the division ? he did beat the best Middleweight Jermain Taylor no arguments. But he has in no way shape or form cleaned out the division, theres still other champions like Felix Sturm, Arthur Abraham. Or how about Raul Marquez, John Duddy ? theres quite a few names he has to beat before we or he can claim he has cleaned out the division.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
It's still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early to level him against ATG...
I like how 1 or 2 top fights into a champs reing people quickly start listing him in mythical fights.
I like Pavlik but beating Miranda & JT is not enough for me to determine how he would do vs. ATG.
We still might not have seen Pavlik at his best, maybes there's more to him.
I was thinking the same thing. Until he does more, it is impossible to determine at what level he is at. He still seems to be evolving at this point, or at least showing us different views of what he can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Due to his physical size, you can say he is a stylistic nightmare to some of them, but what made them great was their ability to overcome stylistic nightmares.
Right on...Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanrwI was thinking the same thing. Until he does more, it is impossible to determine at what level he is at. He still seems to be evolving at this point, or at least showing us different views of what he can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Due to his physical size, you can say he is a stylistic nightmare to some of them, but what made them great was their ability to overcome stylistic nightmares.
Sometimes you just have shake your head.I get caught up at times as much as the next guy in some hype....but Slooow down.Pavlik is an undeniable offensive power house hitting his stride.He is honing his all around skills off that power but in all honesty.....his straight forward power behind a descent jab ,at this point ,is what carries him through his fights.The Taylor fights were pure education 101 and much needed learning.He learned what NOT to do early on and that power brought him out with a top notch KO.The 2nd saw both fighters make adjustments,Taylor boxed well and kept it close Imo until Pavliks power and improved body work took a toll in the 11th with a great left to the ribs.I thought that round won him the fight.The man is learning and frankly has to add a few attributes to that proven offense before he upend's any of the past ATG's, Hagler,Toney,Hopkins,Monzon,Hearns,etc.In his last few fights,I flash back to the way Taylor was able to nearly control the tempo along the ropes in the 2nd fight ,he literally would walk Pavlik around at times and reset.Its all part of learning and Kelly is taking mental notes.Making adjustments....It's the name of the game,ecspecially when the times get rough.The man has fought past the 9th round ONCE, One time!!One thing at a time,He has to face a faded Atg next up in Hopkins and should have a complete loose leaf notebook and a sharp pencil very much at the ready ;D.Ive warmed to this fight.
I'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
I would bro Mike McCallum at his best had a granite chin, great technical skills. And was a terrific body puncher and Kelly Pavlik would be virtually, doubling over after about the 8th round or 9th round. Plus Kelly Pavlik's power wouldn't dent Mike McCallum IMO. Because remember Mike McCallum beat Julian Jackson and took his power, and Julian Jackson is a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik for certain.Quote:
Originally Posted by RozzySeanI'm not sure I would put McCallum or Eubank on that list. Hagler, Monzon, Jones, and Toney, for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
Chris Eubank fought Nigel Benn who was also a bigger puncher than Kelly Pavlik was. And Nigel Benn couldn't even wobble or effect Chris Eubank one bit, Chris Eubank even moved up to Cruiserweight and fought a good puncher in Carl Thompson.
And never looked close to going down but he actually put Carl Thompson down, and had him wobbling quite a few times. The point im making Chris Eubank at his best had one of the best chins i've ever seen, and had enough power to wear out Kelly Pavlik late on, and stop him in a battle chins/will.