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How bad is the heavyweight division when the top two heavyweight belt holders have to find challengers who are refugees from the cruiserweight division? Not discrediting Gomez or Haye, but you'd think the heavyweights would develop something by now other than retreads like Toney, Ruiz, Holyfield (who I thought beat another retread Valuev). :p
King will not allow his only heavyweight champ to get beat by the brothers. Gomez some how has got himself as number 1 so deserves the shot. With Haye you have a case.
Well right now the WBA is like the JUNIOR CIRCUIT those guys fighting for the WBA strap are avoiding the best fighters out there plain and simple.
The heavyweight division is fine but there is a talent gap much like when Mike Tyson and Larry Holmes were in their primes. We have the Klitschko brothers who are hands down the best in the division and then we have a gap then we have the youngsters and the old veterans. The old guys like Rahman, Holyfield, Ruiz, Golota, Brewster etc have all the knowledge of how to win big fights (well maybe not Golota) but their skills are diminishing and the youngsters have great skill but no experience.....Wlad and Vitali have skill and experience and unless the younger fighters fight each other to build experience and then use that experience in their big title shots then we're going to continue to see onesided fights with Wlad and Vitali winning easily.
David Haye should be fighting a tune up vs a REAL heavyweight and not have jumped from cruiser to Monte Barrett to title shot....it's fucking ridiculous to think he's ready when Haye has NEVER fought someone with the size, skill, and power of Wladimir.
Vitali wants Nicolay Valuev and in all honesty that would be a GREAT fight for boxing....Valuev sucks but he can be spun into some great giant like Michael Grant was and when Vitali smashes him within 2 rounds we will have a big spectacular KO win in the heavyweight division and people love that shit.
Heavyweight more then any other division,becomes a race for second place. Usually there's one or two guys everyone knows is the best in the division. In this era thats the Klitschko's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Before that it was Lewis,before that it was Holyfield,before that it was Tyson(with Bowe briefly muddying the waters) before that it was Holmes.
The 70's (the era everyone is pining for) was like the wild wild west. You werent 100% sure who was the best,most of those guys if you cloned them and had them fight now would have a belt at some point.
If Ruiz can keep getting a belt put in his Christmas Stocking by Santa,think how Lyle,Shavers,Bugner,Quarry,Ellis,and Norton would have done
Well Trainer like I said the WBA is like a division by itself away from the rest of the division....Ruiz, Holyfield, Valuev, Chagaev....they haven't fought anyone remotely dangerous in recent years.
Wladimir and Vitali have fought guys who are good fighters and even their mandatories are better than who the WBA guys have fought.
I think to be fair to Chageav he has been quite badly injured since he beat Valuev, I think he was planning on fighting Ibragimov for a unification fight but caught hepatitis b or something strange like this, and after this he has some defense v skelton which is not a great fight I admit, then he tears his achilles tendon. Recently he is saying he wants to win back his belt then fight both the klitschkos(Although I think everyone says this except Valuev).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Although it is probably fairer for Chagaev a fight v Valuev for the belt again, I think it would be much better if Valuev fought Vitali, instead I think this would be a great laugh and the end of Valuev :cool:
Hell Sultan Ibragimov was in the Junior Circuit group before he stepped it up vs the likes of Lance Whittaker, Ray Austin, and then won the title from Shannon Briggs in a lackluster fight but he had the balls to fight Chagaev but ended up fighting the best (Wladimir) in another lackluster fight and IMO a lot of the blame for that fight being boring was on Sultan and not Wlad....but it takes two to tango so you can't place ALL the blame on him.
I just hope in the future Sultan Ibragimov really tries to test himself vs the best when he does decide to trade he is a pretty exciting fighter.
Perhaps the posters can suggest some interesting matchups that 2009 could bring us??? I know I have a couple that I would love to see.
I agree it would have been better for Haye to have fought someone more highly ranked then we would have had a better idea how he would do against Wlad. But I think it has been well said in this thread that the divide between the K brothers and the rest of the pack is pretty wide. I was around during the 1970s when the round robin went on when Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Shavers tooks turns beating the crap out of each other and I just don't see the rivalries being set up (unless you count the grand trllogy of Ruiz-Holyfield,, excuse while I gag on a hair ball).
I guess we'll have to wait for Wlad to run into another Corrie Sanders or Vitali to start breaking down again. Not to make fun of Vitali, he's a great fighter, just so injury prone probably from those years in the amateurs.
Yep and with Wlad just like the Tyson era it is going to end with a former Cruiserweight beating him up and ending his dominance!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Actually I don't remember Buster Douglas being a former cruiserweight champion. Not sure you could boil him down to 200 pounds even in Douglas' prime. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuYep and with Wlad just like the Tyson era it is going to end with a former Cruiserweight beating him up and ending his dominance!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
No version of Buster Douglas coulder beat Wladimir Klitschko!Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat
Now Holyfield, maybe but he has a hell of a chin and during his prime he could pressure ANYONE so I might give you that but then again Evander didn't face a jab like Wladimir's other than when he fought an OLD Larry Holmes and that is not as good as Wlad....sorry
I don't know I think that Douglas is better than all 3 fighters who have beaten Wlad!Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleNo version of Buster Douglas coulder beat Wladimir Klitschko!Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat
Now Holyfield, maybe but he has a hell of a chin and during his prime he could pressure ANYONE so I might give you that but then again Evander didn't face a jab like Wladimir's other than when he fought an OLD Larry Holmes and that is not as good as Wlad....sorry
What must happen is Wladimir vs Vitali. It has to happen... it probably won't... but it has to. There are no interesting fights otherwise. I don't even really pay attention to the heavyweights. There are plenty of exciting fights lower down in weight. Until some decent heavyweights rise up its going to stay that way with me.
Let's not get carried away. Douglas at his best was a heck of a fighter. He had all the talent in the world, but he lacked the desire and consistancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleNo version of Buster Douglas coulder beat Wladimir Klitschko!Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferTheGreat
Now Holyfield, maybe but he has a hell of a chin and during his prime he could pressure ANYONE so I might give you that but then again Evander didn't face a jab like Wladimir's other than when he fought an OLD Larry Holmes and that is not as good as Wlad....sorry
If the good version of Douglas caught Wlad on an off night, he could beat him.
I don't fault Ibragimov for fighting like that. If he had opened up more do you think he would have had more of a chance of winning or more of a chance of getting knocked out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle