Who wins in this versions of themselves the Heavyweight James Toney who stopped Holyfield or the Heavyweight Jones Jr who slapped Ruiz around?
Who and Why?
Thanks!!!
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Who wins in this versions of themselves the Heavyweight James Toney who stopped Holyfield or the Heavyweight Jones Jr who slapped Ruiz around?
Who and Why?
Thanks!!!
Roy Jones... he was still taking the sport seriously. His footspeed was too much for Toney at 168, and fat Toney p4p was a lot slower. Roy would stay away and pot shot him.
Toney was far from fat when he took on Holyfield, and IMO if Tarver could ko Jones (even if the weight hurt him, whats the excuse for Johnson), Toney who although not that big of a puncher, had more pop than Jones, and he'd basically be trailing and not by much to later stop Jones cold, and plz dude, that was one of Jones' lamest excuses, "it's just not fun anymore", yea of course it's not fun when someone finally knocks you sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
James never really look that impressive at Heavyweight except against Holyfield and lets face it, Larry Donald looked like the savior of the heavyweight division against Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesToney was far from fat when he took on Holyfield, and IMO if Tarver could ko Jones (even if the weight hurt him, whats the excuse for Johnson), Toney who although not that big of a puncher, had more pop than Jones, and he'd basically be trailing and not by much to later stop Jones cold, and plz dude, that was one of Jones' lamest excuses, "it's just not fun anymore", yea of course it's not fun when someone finally knocks you sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
he looked pretty damn good against Ruiz and Sam Peter the first time out, and hell i'd even say that the Cruiserweight Toney would beat the HW JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyJames never really look that impressive at Heavyweight except against Holyfield and lets face it, Larry Donald looked like the savior of the heavyweight division against Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesToney was far from fat when he took on Holyfield, and IMO if Tarver could ko Jones (even if the weight hurt him, whats the excuse for Johnson), Toney who although not that big of a puncher, had more pop than Jones, and he'd basically be trailing and not by much to later stop Jones cold, and plz dude, that was one of Jones' lamest excuses, "it's just not fun anymore", yea of course it's not fun when someone finally knocks you sillyQuote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
James Toney was weight drained when he fought RJJ, im a big fan of both fighters. But lets be frank here that was hardly the James Toney, that beat Michael Nunn, Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I agree that James Toney would struggle with RJJ's movement, especially at Heavyweight. But you never know, we never really see RJJ at Heavyweight. And beating John Ruiz tells me nothing, because James Toney was able to beat John Ruiz. Just as good even knocking him down.
James Toney had some impressive performances at Heavyweight, against Rydell Booker, Evander Holyfield, Dominick Guinn. And even though the smart moneys on RJJ winning a UD, it wouldn't suprise me if the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Clocked RJJ and put his lights out, James Toney could still hit fairly good at Heavyweight.
Well if we are gonna put the James Toney against Holyfield we can put the Roy Jones that fought Ruiz in there, now at this time Roy was basically untouchable and unstoppable, only when he moved down in weight back to Light Heavy was he knocked out and caught because of what it did to his body so lets throw all that out the window for this instance since if they'd fought it'd never happened. Because if we want to bring up Roy's faults when he went down to Light Heavyweight then we could also include that James Toney struggled with Fres Oquendo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJames Toney was weight drained when he fought RJJ, im a big fan of both fighters. But lets be frank here that was hardly the James Toney, that beat Michael Nunn, Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I agree that James Toney would struggle with RJJ's movement, especially at Heavyweight. But you never know, we never really see RJJ at Heavyweight. And beating John Ruiz tells me nothing, because James Toney was able to beat John Ruiz. Just as good even knocking him down.
James Toney had some impressive performances at Heavyweight, against Rydell Booker, Evander Holyfield, Dominick Guinn. And even though the smart moneys on RJJ winning a UD, it wouldn't suprise me if the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Clocked RJJ and put his lights out, James Toney could still hit fairly good at Heavyweight.
Roy Jones would have beaten James again, James still had trouble with speed and at Heavyweight fought no one with Roy's kind of speed and wouldn't have made the same mistakes people like Ruiz made against him like leading in with your hands down and chin out.
Roy would have beaten James again. Because let's be honest here, James Toney may have been drained against Jones in their fight but it doesn't take away the fact that Roy was still that much faster and could time him at will. Regardless of what was going on with James weight even healthy on that night there was really nothing he would have done to Jones. A perfectlly fine James Toney fought Montell Griffin afterwards and lost twice. he wasn't beating Jones even if he wasn't as drained.
Toney would have been the first man to KO Jones Jr. Toney was pretty damn good at heavyweight for a couple of years, before the Burger King addiction and the roadwork allergy started to take their toll. I thought Toney was still extremely strong up until the first Peter fight (which I thought Toney won). It all fell apart after that.
Good post, totally agree with all of that. For a fair period after moving up form cruiserweight Toney was still remarkably good. Great handspeed, movement, and still a fair bit of pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJames Toney was weight drained when he fought RJJ, im a big fan of both fighters. But lets be frank here that was hardly the James Toney, that beat Michael Nunn, Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I agree that James Toney would struggle with RJJ's movement, especially at Heavyweight. But you never know, we never really see RJJ at Heavyweight. And beating John Ruiz tells me nothing, because James Toney was able to beat John Ruiz. Just as good even knocking him down.
James Toney had some impressive performances at Heavyweight, against Rydell Booker, Evander Holyfield, Dominick Guinn. And even though the smart moneys on RJJ winning a UD, it wouldn't suprise me if the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Clocked RJJ and put his lights out, James Toney could still hit fairly good at Heavyweight.
I think people are forgetting how well, James Toney was doing between 2003-2005. I mean he arguably had some of his finest performances, between beating Vassiliy Jirov, up until beating Dominick Guinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesGood post, totally agree with all of that. For a fair period after moving up form cruiserweight Toney was still remarkably good. Great handspeed, movement, and still a fair bit of pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBJames Toney was weight drained when he fought RJJ, im a big fan of both fighters. But lets be frank here that was hardly the James Toney, that beat Michael Nunn, Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I agree that James Toney would struggle with RJJ's movement, especially at Heavyweight. But you never know, we never really see RJJ at Heavyweight. And beating John Ruiz tells me nothing, because James Toney was able to beat John Ruiz. Just as good even knocking him down.
James Toney had some impressive performances at Heavyweight, against Rydell Booker, Evander Holyfield, Dominick Guinn. And even though the smart moneys on RJJ winning a UD, it wouldn't suprise me if the James Toney that fought Evander Holyfield. Clocked RJJ and put his lights out, James Toney could still hit fairly good at Heavyweight.
And i thought he looked good in all those fights, his weight did start to go up when he fought Rydell Booker. But he was still fine his workrate was good, his power was good considering the cirumstances. His speed was good enough and his defense as it always is, was superb.
Any version of jones beats any version of Toney. All the fighters that they share in common...Toney struggled with while Jones blew them away not too mention he soundly beat Toney himself. Someone mentioned that Toney looked good against Nunn..he was thoroughly being outboxed until he landed the lucky KO blow. Jones didn't lose that much in the abilities that separated him from Toney in their first fight, if anything Toney would have been a sitting duck because he actually stopped moving at the higher weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBI think people are forgetting how well, James Toney was doing between 2003-2005. I mean he arguably had some of his finest performances, between beating Vassiliy Jirov, up until beating Dominick Guinn.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesGood post, totally agree with all of that. For a fair period after moving up form cruiserweight Toney was still remarkably good. Great handspeed, movement, and still a fair bit of pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
And i thought he looked good in all those fights, his weight did start to go up when he fought Rydell Booker. But he was still fine his workrate was good, his power was good considering the cirumstances. His speed was good enough and his defense as it always is, was superb.
Roy was always too fast and too good for James Toney.
At any weight he'd beat James 9/10 times.
A serious Toney at the cruiserweight limit of 200 pounds would be a serious endevour. Just don't think Toney is serious enough to get himself in that kind of shape any more. Jones would pot shot him for 12 rounds and win by 8 rounds to 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshe looked pretty damn good against Ruiz and Sam Peter the first time out, and hell i'd even say that the Cruiserweight Toney would beat the HW JonesQuote:
Originally Posted by MajestyJames never really look that impressive at Heavyweight except against Holyfield and lets face it, Larry Donald looked like the savior of the heavyweight division against Holyfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
VS Tarver it was the weight that hurt him, I don't think he had recovered when he fought Johnson, he jumped right back into the mix to make everyone forget about the loss before he did. Johnson is a solid fighter, he applied constant pressure and Roy folded up on account of the fact he had never had to deal with that before.
James Toney is a different animal, he countered Evander all night long, and he dealt with John Ruiz's pressure easily. Roy is a guy who moved too much for Toney to be effective against. Toney likes people to come to him and Roy knew that the first time they fought and he whipped him and he'd do it again if they fought at heavyweight.
I think the bigger question is could James Toney have beaten Mike Tyson at that point in his career?
I would have ending the same way when they fought at 168. Again a boring ass fight with Jones easily taking a UD