Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
For everyone talking about Pac's amazing weight gain (hinting at steroids) I was looking at Box Rec and compared his rise in weight to Golden Boy Production's head Honcho Oscar De La Hoya.
De La Hoya:
In 1994 at age 21 he weighed 128 and 3/4 pounds for a fight.
In 2001 at age 28 he weighed 154 for a fight.
Weight gain: 25 pounds in 7 years.
Pac:
In 1995 at age 17 he weighed 106 pounds for a fight.
In 2009 at age 31 he weighed 144 pounds for a fight.
Weight gain: 38 pounds in 14 years.
Now observing that ODLH was more of an adult and away from his growing years than PAC was, and the fact that Pac took so many years to, pardon the pun, pack on the pounds, what kind of steroids was ODLH on?
Just wondering. Plus the fact that ODLH eventually dropped 7 pounds for his last fight, and since we haven't seen a fight to come about to motivate PAC to drop back down a division or two we don't know what he can go back to yet.
Just food for thought...Jody
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Well, Pacquiao went up from 130 to 144 or so in what, 2 years? That and he stayed looking ripped and his power still looked good. Personally I think it can be explained (he was weighing 144 on fight night for the JMM fight at 130 and he weighed 148 the night of the Hatton fight, he's just not cutting as much) but combine that with the refusal to take the tests that could really show if he's using or not and of course people are skeptical.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
25 pounds in 7 years or 38 in 14 years isn't exactly a great deal of weight for a human to gain...
It's worth noting that those weights won't have been actual weights either but dehydrated weights... ODLH would of had to have dry up a lot more to reach light weight than he would to reach welterweight for example... so really we should be looking more at the weights they walked around at... not fought at.
Weight gain? You eat more calories than you expend... pretty simple really... steroids aren't what makes a person gain weight... they help to stop your body breaking down during intense training but that's it... You'll see guys gaining 25 pounds in a few months of training if they're into hypertrophy, so I think that comparing two fighters and the handful of pounds they gained over DECADES doesn't prove or disprove jackshit... real psuedo-science.
Every body's metabolism is set up different for a start.
But really weight isn't an issue... performance, more specifically rapid improvements in performance are.
Weight gain over decades shouldn't really raise any suspicions of steroid abuse...
Now, being in the public eye, refusing to take the most fail-safe drug test out there and then floundering around, contradicting yourself and coming up with every excuse under the sun - that might raise a few eyebrows
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
ODH is tall and rangy so can up the weight easier, like Hearns.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant! :p
Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it... ;)
Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant! :p
Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it... ;)
Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.
I agree with all that. I was going to mention something about Arturo Gatti fighting at 140 but coming in figh night at 151. As far as the not wanting to take the tests, if someone called me a cheater with no basis or evidence other than I moved up in weight, I might tell them to take a hike. Then again for 40 million other reasons I'd take the damn test and try to beat the shit out of them.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."
From Thomas Hauser
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Hauser also noted this about Evander Holyfield and steroids:
"On August 29, 2006, federal Drug Enforcement Agency officials in Alabama raided a compounding pharmacy (a pharmacy that makes its own drugs generically) called Applied Pharmacy Services. Among the documents seized were records stating that, in June 2004, a patient named “Evan Fields” picked up three vials of testosterone and related injection supplies from a doctor in Columbus, Georgia. That same month, Fields received five vials of Saizen (a human growth hormone). In September 2004, according to the documents, Fields underwent treatment for hypogonadism (a condition that results when the sex glands produce little or no hormones). The date of birth, home address, and telephone number listed for Evan Fields in Applied Pharmacy’s records were identical to those of Evander Holyfield.
The New York Times reported in 1995 that, after Holyfield lost his heavyweight championship to Michael Moorer, Evander was diagnosed as having a non-compliant left ventricle (one of four chambers in the human heart), which caused a dangerous build-up of fluids. That diagnosis, according to the Times, was confirmed by two sets of tests, the second round being conducted at Emory University in Atlanta.
Holyfield was tested a number of times for steroids in Nevada. The tests all came back negative. He was not tested by the Nevada commission for human growth hormone or EPO.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."
From Thomas Hauser
Thanks Lance for the good point
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LuciferTheGreat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AdamGB
^hahaha, straight to the point... unlike my rant! :p
Yes, I should also mention that ODLH being 5 foot 11 might have something to do with it... ;)
Sometimes it's not a case of a fighter forcing their weight up... it's just that they've stopped forcing their weight down.
I agree with all that. I was going to mention something about Arturo Gatti fighting at 140 but coming in figh night at 151. As far as the not wanting to take the tests, if someone called me a cheater with no basis or evidence other than I moved up in weight, I might tell them to take a hike. Then again for 40 million other reasons I'd take the damn test and try to beat the shit out of them.
If Pac had simply said to "take a hike", I think things may very well have turned out different. I believe it was all the excuses, half compromises, and contradictions that made Pac look bad, and ultimately led negotiations down the ill fated path.
I'm sure there are countless examples of PED use that will never be known. There is an "arms race" between new more effective testing and drugs/administering techniques that aim to avoid detection. Time will tell if professional boxing does its best to keep current with the most effective testing procedures.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Yeah, saying no was kind of bad but he could of just shrugged it off and walked away from it... like you said it's the contradictions, bargaining, back tracking and out right lying which have hurt him the most.
An utter PR disaster.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
The fact that he's moved up the weights isn't too amazing. It's the fact that he moved through the weights and has not lost any explosiveness. Oscar got less explosive as he moved up in weight!
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
I think Pacman was just fighting at too small of a weight to begin with.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
The fact that he's moved up the weights isn't too amazing. It's the fact that he moved through the weights and has not lost any explosiveness. Oscar got less explosive as he moved up in weight!
Totally agree. You can't look at just weight gain and leave it at that. Any fighter can go up in weight classes. Its how that fighter does and looks is what would raise the eyebrows. Especially being in the steroid era its natural to at least be open to the possibility anyone can be on it.
Re: Weight Gain: De Le Hoya vs Pac
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lance Uppercut
"Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Pacquiao fought at weights ranging from 106 to 144 pounds. Between the ages of sixteen and thirty-one, Mayweather fought at weights ranging from 106 to 150 pounds."
From Thomas Hauser
Floyd pretty much stopped knocking people out when he went north of 130. Manny moved up to 130 and beyond and his KO percentage improved and he's now beating up elite welterweights.
