Ralph Nader

I have been listening to a number of interviews with Ralph Nader and TBH I haven't heard all that much that I disagree with. He seems like an astute man with a firm grasp on all of the issues that matter, which is pretty unusual for a politician. He obviously thinks outside the box and doesn't bow to the elite controlled mainstream media nor suck up to the two less than democratic main parties.

Here is Nader speaking on election evening and even then he had it all figured out about Obama. I wasn't so clued in and wasmuch more optimistic about Obama, but it's only in the last couple of years that I have been seriously honing in on US politics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-bC7...eature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5gaI-C0MfM&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak-lWu6Bvo0&feature=channel

And here he is dealing with the most obnoxious little toad of a presenter I have ever seen. Okay, Nader could have made use of more PC language, but his point was clear and he explained all his others points well too. Of course, the mainstream media didn't want to talk about the issues that matter. It's a little like the Helen Thomas dismissal. She's a credible journalist who asks the correct questions and she had a little rant about Israel. So we forget about all the important stuff that she has done and burn her for a little gaffe which she subsequently apologises for? How about looking at her important question about who has nuclear weapons in the region? But no, instead they ignore the important points and focus on the relatively trivial. Screw the mainstream media. Rant over, here is Nader having his moment in the mainstream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s4ogOTmYH4&feature=related

Anyway, what are you views on Ralph Nader? I quite like him.

Dammit, these videos are simply too big.

Right now I think ANYONE would be better than Obama

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

Right now I think ANYONE would be better than Obama

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Come on now Lyle, Sarah Palin would clearly be worse than Obama. ;D

I think what has become apparent is that party politics is a charade and that both parties are in the vested interests of the corporations that fund the campaigns. This was the opportunity for the Democrats with a majority to show that they could go against the grain and reverse the Bush years, but all we are seeing is a perpetuation and perhaps even an escalation of the Bush years. The lobbyists and corporations behind them seem to have won. Let's see what happens to this financial reform bill and see just how watered down it finally becomes, I've a feeling that it will be much like the healthcare bill, so watered down that it becomes irrelevant.

However, unless you stand for either of these parties you haven't got a shot at becoming President and yet if you join one of these parties then you have most likely sold out already. People like Ron Paul are all too rare in US party politics. Ralph Nader seems like a man with his principles in all the right places, but he was never going to win more than a tiny share of the popular vote due to the way the system is set up. It's not so democratic when you break it down.

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

Right now I think ANYONE would be better than Obama

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Come on now Lyle, Sarah Palin would clearly be worse than Obama. ;D

I think what has become apparent is that party politics is a charade and that both parties are in the vested interests of the corporations that fund the campaigns. This was the opportunity for the Democrats with a majority to show that they could go against the grain and reverse the Bush years, but all we are seeing is a perpetuation and perhaps even an escalation of the Bush years. The lobbyists and corporations behind them seem to have won. Let's see what happens to this financial reform bill and see just how watered down it finally becomes, I've a feeling that it will be much like the healthcare bill, so watered down that it becomes irrelevant.

However, unless you stand for either of these parties you haven't got a shot at becoming President and yet if you join one of these parties then you have most likely sold out already. People like Ron Paul are all too rare in US party politics. Ralph Nader seems like a man with his principles in all the right places, but he was never going to win more than a tiny share of the popular vote due to the way the system is set up. It's not so democratic when you break it down.

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While I agree Palin would be a bad President and I wouldn't vote for her it's not a given that she'd be worse than Obama....the guy doesn't have a fucking clue

haha Miles you're a loon mate. Helen Thomas had a 'little rant' at Israel? She basically told them to fuck off home to Germany and Poland (where they were gassed in their millions I may add), that's probably the most outrageous and offensive thing a person in a position of authority in America has said in decades.

Imagine saying that about any other race on earth, how about Black's in the US, there would an outcry.

She's a fucking evil old croan and an anti semitic witch.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

haha Miles you're a loon mate. Helen Thomas had a 'little rant' at Israel? She basically told them to fuck off home to Germany and Poland (where they were gassed in their millions I may add), that's probably the most outrageous and offensive thing a person in a position of authority in America has said in decades.

Imagine saying that about any other race on earth, how about Black's in the US, there would an outcry.

She's a fucking evil old croan and an anti semitic witch.

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....won't get any argument from me about that Bilbo.

Aren't lefties supposed to be PC and try to appease everyone?

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

haha Miles you're a loon mate. Helen Thomas had a 'little rant' at Israel? She basically told them to fuck off home to Germany and Poland (where they were gassed in their millions I may add), that's probably the most outrageous and offensive thing a person in a position of authority in America has said in decades.

Imagine saying that about any other race on earth, how about Black's in the US, there would an outcry.

She's a fucking evil old croan and an anti semitic witch.

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....won't get any argument from me about that Bilbo.

Aren't lefties supposed to be PC and try to appease everyone?

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You kidding? The liberal left are the most fundamentalist people on the planet, relentlessly pushing their agendas. What they do though is attach loaded terms to their opponent's like 'radical', 'fundamentalist' 'extremist' '....phobic' 'lobbyists' etc in order to try and convince the mostly gullible public into thinking their own views are democratic and fair.

Fucking hate liberals, cuuuunnts! :mad:;D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

haha Miles you're a loon mate. Helen Thomas had a 'little rant' at Israel? She basically told them to fuck off home to Germany and Poland (where they were gassed in their millions I may add), that's probably the most outrageous and offensive thing a person in a position of authority in America has said in decades.

Imagine saying that about any other race on earth, how about Black's in the US, there would an outcry.

She's a fucking evil old croan and an anti semitic witch.

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No doubt it was offensive, but she apologised and life should go on. It's quite acceptable to have loaded anti-muslim rhetoric in the mouths of politicians and the media and yet if anyone so much as steps out of line over Israel then they get nailed and this is just what happened here. Is the modern state of Germany such a bad place for Jews? And is Poland for that matter? After all the Poles did resist the Nazi occupation. IMO It really isn't acceptable for Jews to just take up and leave for Israel from a country when they have no former ties to Israel. That kind of religious state emmigration doesn't exist for most countries in the world. For instance "Oh, you are a Jehovas Witness? Nice, we want more of your types here. But forget it if there are Jews or Arabs in the woodwork". It's scandalous when you look at it like that. Oh, but the Bible says it is our destiny say the Jews. What a crock of shit justification. :rolleyes:

Thomas is a respected journalist and there aren't many of them in America. She made a mistake here, just like many of us would in one of our more off guard moments. But there is no doubt that there is censorship on the issue of Israel in America and that freedom of speech is arbitrary. She didn't say it about blacks in America because she hasn't seen blacks take over and try to colonise and oppress Canada and Mexico. Why would she say anything about blacks? Interesting to see Lyle going against freedom of speech when it comes to Israel.

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Originally Posted by miles

Interesting to see Lyle going against freedom of speech when it comes to Israel.

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I'm not against freedom of speech at all, but let's say you said that at work what would happen to you? No one is putting her in jail, no one is assaulting her, they just said that what she said was wrong and they called for her job and she resigned....and rightfully so.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

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Originally Posted by miles

Interesting to see Lyle going against freedom of speech when it comes to Israel.

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I'm not against freedom of speech at all, but let's say you said that at work what would happen to you? No one is putting her in jail, no one is assaulting her, they just said that what she said was wrong and they called for her job and she resigned....and rightfully so.

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She apologised and that should have been enough. She shouldn't have needed to resign. Her comments were made outside of work hours and even if 'wrong' one is entitled to express what one feels. It was a witchhunt by a two bit media that refuses to ever rise up on the issues that matter. It was all quite unnecessary IMO.

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Originally Posted by miles

She apologised and that should have been enough. She shouldn't have needed to resign. Her comments were made outside of work hours and even if 'wrong' one is entitled to express what one feels. It was a witchhunt by a two bit media that refuses to ever rise up on the issues that matter. It was all quite unnecessary IMO.

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Sorry we disagree miles, but what she said was enough to cost her her job

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu apprentice

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Originally Posted by miles

She apologised and that should have been enough. She shouldn't have needed to resign. Her comments were made outside of work hours and even if 'wrong' one is entitled to express what one feels. It was a witchhunt by a two bit media that refuses to ever rise up on the issues that matter. It was all quite unnecessary IMO.

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Sorry we disagree miles, but what she said was enough to cost her her job

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Nothing wrong with disagreeing. We both agree that she spoke rashly, just disagree on how far the consequences should have gone.