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Since some countries had lots of great fighters , for them picking the best 10 will not be enough , for some countries , finding 5 noteworthy fighters may b hard or even impossible , whereas only 4d U.S even picking top 40 might do many unjust .
edit : not sure about it anymore at all . but u get my idea
I'll start with 1 of d most popular if not d popular outside of d U.S of course :
Puerto Rico :
1. Juan LaPorte
2. Hector Camacho
3. Adolfo Viruet
4. Edwin Viruet
5. Wilfredo Vazquez
6. Carlos Ortiz
7. Sixto Escobar
8. Wilfred Benitez
9. Esteban DeJesus
10. Frankie Narvarez
11. Edwin Rosario
12. John John Molina
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Eric Morel
15. Rafael Del Valle
16. Ivan Calderon
Mexico :
1. Salvador Sanchez
2. Julio Cesar Chavez
3. Juan Manuel Marquez
4. Jose Luis Lopez
5. Jose Luis Ramirez
6. Melchor Cob Castro
7. Carlos Palomino
8. Erik Morales
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Gilberto Roman
11. Raul Perez
12. Carlos Molina
13. Chucho Castillo
14. Rafael Herrera
15. Ruben Olivares
16. Israel Vazquez
17. Rafael Marquez
18. Oscar Larios
19. Baby Arizmendi
20. Carlos Zarate
21. Jose Medel
22. Jose Beccera
23. Daniel Zaragoza
24. Ricardo Lopez
25. Genaro Hernandez
It seems 2 me that Olivares , Herrera & Castillo r all swappable , 2 know better i need 2 know especially about each of their stoppage losses .
Rosendo Alvarez lost on paper 2 Ricardo Lopez (draw & a split decision) but had much more longevity 2 his prime and had a slightly better opposition . They r swappable , but i wanted 2 emphasize just how much . 2 me , a close decision win or lose is considered a draw and I don't care how many "wins" , "losses" or "KOs" a fighter has . I care y , how & vs who .
2 prevent any discrimination against d U.S born :
1. Oscar Delahoya
2. Manuel Ortiz
3. Orlando Canizales
4. Micahel Carbajal
5. Danny Perez
6. Gaby Canizales
7. Carlos Hernandez
8. Richie Sandoval
9. Juan Escobar ("Rudy")
10. Alberto Davila
11. Bobby Chacon
Argentina :
1) Jorge Fernando Castro
2) Gregorio Manuel Peralta
3) Jorge Fernandez
4) Carlos Monzon
5) Santos Benigno Laciar
6) Victor Emilio Galindez
7) Oscar Natalio Bonavena
8) Ubaldo Nestor Sacco
9) Farid Salim
10) Nicolino Locche
11) Juan Martin Coggi
12) Pscual Perez
13) Horacio Acavallo
14) Lorenzo Luis Garcia
15) Pedro Armando Gutierrez
16) Jorge Victor Ahumada
17) Avenamar Peralta
Loaded gloved Antonio Margachito and Chito Trinidad will not b introduced 2 any of my list but my Hall Of Shame .
This list may undergo fixes but don't criticize me b4 u present your own alternative 2 it .
Finding a slight mistake is easier than compiling it all from virtually nothing .
Panama :
1. Roberto Duran
2. Jorge Lujan
3. Ismael Laguna
4. Ernesto Marcel
5. Hilario Zapata
6. Eusebio Pedroza
7. "Panama" Al Brown
8. Antonio Amaya
9. Alfonso Lopez
10. Victor Cordoba
It was Xtremely hard compiling d top 10 4 Panama . 1 can consider it a top 5 with places 6,7 residing safely in top 20 Hall Of Shame (maybe Duran deserves a mention there 2) and #8-#10 IDK much about Xcept that they r far away behind d top 3 .
USA (post mafia era) :
1. Mike McCallum (i know he was born in Jamaica but when was d last time he lived there ?)
2. James Toney
3. Oliver McCall
4. Orlin Norris
5. Chris Byrd
6. Muhammad Qawi
7. Reggie Johnson
8. Shane Mosley
9. Simon Brown
10. Ronald Wright
remark : on paper Mike Tyson may seem Xtremely deserving but watching and understanding his fights lead me 2d inevitable conclusion that he usually won his fights with his elbows and even when he didn't choose 2 use them his opponents had 2b aware of his approved foul tactic of using them which effected their actions during d fights .
RJJ & "SRL" were total hypejobs (threads 2 come) and would not make even my top 20 of that era .
I may edit this list still , so criticism is welcomed as long as u post your own alternative .
Eric Morales must be higher than you have him.
and I have no idea what he's basing his PR list from, cause no way in hell is Laporte the #1 fighter out of Puerto Rico in terms of skill, accomplishments, or even popularityQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
my Puerto Rico list goes something like this
Puerto Rico :
1. "El Radar" Wilfredo Benitez
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez
4. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
5. Sixto Escobar (for historical reasons)
6. Miguel Cotto
7. Esteban DeJesus
8. Hector "Macho" Camacho
9. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
10. Jose "Chegui" Torres
11. Wilfredo Vazquez
12. "The Iron Boy" Ivan Calderon
13. Alfredo "El Salsero" Escalera
14. Juan Laporte
15. Sammy "El Torbellino" Serrano
16. Carlos De Leon
17. John John Molina
18. Ossie Ocasio
19. Angel Manfredy
20. John Ruiz (again only historical reasons)
Thats more like it ;D
I think you nailed your top 10 quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Both Olivares and Zarate are way to low, they both could've been crowned King Of Mexico at some point in their career they were that popular. I have them both ahead of Palomino and Ramirez and top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
and where are Zaragoza and Paez?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANBoth Olivares and Zarate are way to low, they both could've been crowned King Of Mexico at some point in their career they were that popular. I have them both ahead of Palomino and Ramirez and top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
Zaragoza was one tough nut!Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand where are Zaragoza and Paez?Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANBoth Olivares and Zarate are way to low, they both could've been crowned King Of Mexico at some point in their career they were that popular. I have them both ahead of Palomino and Ramirez and top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
I can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .
Zarate's resume is weak . I don't even count his "losses" 2 Pintor and Gomez as losses but look @ who he beat : Zamora and this is about where it ends . And Zamora wasn't great or near great anyway . Zamora's loss 2 some1 like Zarate counts against him more than Zarate's win over Zamora counts in his favor . Both r almost totally unproven . 2 1 hit wonders .Quote:
Originally Posted by THE THIRD MANBoth Olivares and Zarate are way to low, they both could've been crowned King Of Mexico at some point in their career they were that popular. I have them both ahead of Palomino and Ramirez and top 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank
As 4 Olivares he is proven , but look @ his outcomes against Castillo & Herrera . 4 me he lost 2 each 1 of them in each 1 of their encounters . He was floored in his "winning" efforts against Castillo and was stopped due 2 cuts in another 1 of their encounters .
Olivares was not even Mexico's greatest bantamweight of his era , it's 2 close between himself , Castillo & Herera and if only d 3 of them had existed and their fights would have ended Xactly d way they had , i'd have them ranked like this :
1. Castillo (stopped Herera , cut Olivares and actually beat Olivares twice more but got robbed)
2. Herera (stopped Olivares twice but was stopped by Castillo)
3. Olivares (could just never beat Castillo or Hererra in 5 overall opportunities)
I scored LaPorte's fights against Salvador Sanchez & Julio Cesar Chavez as draws .Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesand I have no idea what he's basing his PR list from, cause no way in hell is Laporte the #1 fighter out of Puerto Rico in terms of skill, accomplishments, or even popularityQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
These r 2 Mexico's greatest .
Also compare LaPorte with Gomez : LaPorte lost a decision 2 Gomez , but unlike Gomez who got stopped by both Sanchez & Nelson , LaPorte went d distance vs both and 2 me deserved draws on both occasions .
Gomez had 2 settle 4 a very close decision in Puerto Rico over Rocky Lockridge which was probably a robbery , LaPorte KOd Lockridge in 2 .
LaPorte was clearly better than Gomez .
compare LaPorte with Nelson : Nelson did much better vs Gomez but LaPorte did much better vs Sanchez . Nelson won a close decision over LaPorte (haven't seen it but i more than doubt its worth)
, Nelson gave Whitaker a close fight but LaPorte gave Chavez a close fight (a draw 2 me) and Chavez was a much more formidable opponent than Whitaker .
LaPorte > Nelson .
Even comparing LaPorte with Chavez yields LaPorte > Chavez .
mutual opponents : Rocky Lockridge , Kostya Tszyu . LaPorte did much better vs both and deserved a draw against Chavez himself while older & smaller than him . LaPorte also fought Sanchez while Chavez did not .
I credit sox formidability much more than i do popularity .
LaPorte was in fact a better fighter and el mas macho 2 Gomez , and Gomez' "skill" only saw him getting stopped by both Sanchez & Nelson and hitting a downed Zarate in what should in fact have been a disqualification win 4 Zarate over Gomez . Gomez beat no1 . Xept maybe LaPorte by decision and i still need 2 watch 2 decide 4 myself , but it won't change d facts that i already stated .
Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Lopez were not better than Morales. Eric was an elite fighter these two were clearly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankI can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .
Jose Luis Ramirez stopped Edwin Rosario and since i watched their 1st fight as well i can tell u that he didn;t lose that 1 either .Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Lopez were not better than Morales. Eric was an elite fighter these two were clearly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrankI can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .
Ramirez loss 2 Chavez was by Technical decision due 2 Chavez' butting of him and although Chavez was ahead on points he was younger so it was Xpected and u don't know how it would've ended if d butting did not occur . Ramirez while clearly past his prime rightfully deserved d decision against Pernell Whitaker which is considered a robbery by most since they haven't watched it from start 2 finish @ original speed like i did .
Whitaker did nothing Xcept from retreating and escaping .
Ramirez also deserved d decision over Alexis Arguello , 99:98 was d least i could score it in favor of Ramirez .
I think that winning against Rosario , Whitaker and Arguello and going d distance with Camacho , Rosario and most probably with Chavez if it wasn't 4 d headbutt and then also Juan Martin Coggi surpasses 3 close fights with Barera , a KO over a probably drained Junior Jones and a decision over Kevin Kelley . Morales' close decision over Pacquiao was well reversed by 2 stoppage losses 2 him and got overrated .