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[frankenfrank]

Eric Morales must be higher than you have him.

I can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .

[Master]

Eric Morales must be higher than you have him.

I can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .

Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Lopez were not better than Morales. Eric was an elite fighter these two were clearly not.

[frankenfrank]

Eric Morales must be higher than you have him.

I can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .

Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Lopez were not better than Morales. Eric was an elite fighter these two were clearly not.

Jose Luis Ramirez stopped Edwin Rosario and since i watched their 1st fight as well i can tell u that he didn;t lose that 1 either .
Ramirez loss 2 Chavez was by Technical decision due 2 Chavez' butting of him and although Chavez was ahead on points he was younger so it was Xpected and u don't know how it would've ended if d butting did not occur . Ramirez while clearly past his prime rightfully deserved d decision against Pernell Whitaker which is considered a robbery by most since they haven't watched it from start 2 finish @ original speed like i did .
Whitaker did nothing Xcept from retreating and escaping .
Ramirez also deserved d decision over Alexis Arguello , 99:98 was d least i could score it in favor of Ramirez .
I think that winning against Rosario , Whitaker and Arguello and going d distance with Camacho , Rosario and most probably with Chavez if it wasn't 4 d headbutt and then also Juan Martin Coggi surpasses 3 close fights with Barera , a KO over a probably drained Junior Jones and a decision over Kevin Kelley . Morales' close decision over Pacquiao was well reversed by 2 stoppage losses 2 him and got overrated .

[IamInuit]

Went down this road far two many times over many years and in the end it’s subjective.

I will say this though to the author of this thread. The A beat C and C beat B therefore A beats B premise does not work in boxing. In fact, it’s pretzel logic.

Since the structure of your argument is based on that false fact then all the conclusions you claim as fact throughout are also false or should I say not a fact.

[frankenfrank]

Xept of d little fact that i make d distinction between a stoppage win and a robbery loss that should have been either a draw or a decision win , and some other major facts .

[Master]

Eric Morales must be higher than you have him.

I can't rank him above any of : Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez .
I also think that both of d Jose Luis were better (Ramirez and Lopez) and despite I can bare ranking Morales above Marquez , I don't think like it .
So how and Y should i have rated Morales higher ? I ranked him above popular picks such as Olivares , Zarate , Saldivar and Ricardo Lopez . I also ranked him above Barera , despite Barera fighting Marquez and Hamed whereas Morales did not .

Jose Luis Ramirez and Jose Luis Lopez were not better than Morales. Eric was an elite fighter these two were clearly not.

Jose Luis Ramirez stopped Edwin Rosario and since i watched their 1st fight as well i can tell u that he didn;t lose that 1 either .
Ramirez loss 2 Chavez was by Technical decision due 2 Chavez' butting of him and although Chavez was ahead on points he was younger so it was Xpected and u don't know how it would've ended if d butting did not occur . Ramirez while clearly past his prime rightfully deserved d decision against Pernell Whitaker which is considered a robbery by most since they haven't watched it from start 2 finish @ original speed like i did .
Whitaker did nothing Xcept from retreating and escaping .
Ramirez also deserved d decision over Alexis Arguello , 99:98 was d least i could score it in favor of Ramirez .
I think that winning against Rosario , Whitaker and Arguello and going d distance with Camacho , Rosario and most probably with Chavez if it wasn't 4 d headbutt and then also Juan Martin Coggi surpasses 3 close fights with Barera , a KO over a probably drained Junior Jones and a decision over Kevin Kelley . Morales' close decision over Pacquiao was well reversed by 2 stoppage losses 2 him and got overrated .

You are biasly defending Ramirez and no way was he an elite fighter Eric Morales who won the title against Zaragoza (who had just beaten Wayne McCullough so was not past his prime), Barrera (in a ATG fight), Jones, Kelly, In Jin Chin, etc

[frankenfrank]

You are biasly defending Ramirez and no way was he an elite fighter Eric Morales who won the title against Zaragoza (who had just beaten Wayne McCullough so was not past his prime), Barrera (in a ATG fight), Jones, Kelly, In Jin Chin, etc

Zaragoza was 42 years old by d time Morales stopped him . U claim that he was prime by then . George Foreman was even older (and n odd Xample 2 n older fighter winning a title @ such age) when he KOd Moorer . Was Foreman prime against Holyfield , 3 years prior 2 KOing Moorer and becoming "d champion" ? According 2u , he must have been , since it was years prior 2 him winning a title , or does 42 years old Foreman count as 2 green because of it ?
Ramirez' record consists of d best available 2 fight .
compare Chavez , Whitaker*2 , Rosario*2 , Camacho , Arguello , Mancini with Pacquiao*3 , Barera*3 , Junior Jones and tell me who were d tougher opponents as a whole .

Regarding Lopez look @ who he fought : Isufu Quartey , Aaron Davis , James Page and Luis Ramon Campas 4 what he's worth (i think Campas simply couldn't get d mediocre opponents 2 pad his record with and 2 get quality Xperience against , it was d hard way 4 him and bums in between . Also some of Campas' stoppage losses during his prime and a little past it were due 2 cuts which is less telling)

[Master]

I was making a point that Zaragoza beat a vibrant McCullough just the fight before so he was not way past his best.

I left out Lopez deliberately he was a good fighter who under achieved. Quartey beat him with the jab and Page did too.

[frankenfrank]

I was making a point that Zaragoza beat a vibrant McCullough just the fight before so he was not way past his best.

I left out Lopez deliberately he was a good fighter who under achieved. Quartey beat him with the jab and Page did too.

u did initially xplicitly claim that Morales was n elite fighter whereas Lopez was not . I forgot 2 give d reply about it (him) in my initial reply 4 that post .

Lopez owned Page's S but got robbed . At times it made me wonder how they let that fight continue .
As 4 Quartey i haven't seen that fight yet , but 2-0 KDs while not getting awarded a victory reads like a robbery , even if i happened 2c worse robberies .

i haven't watched Zaragoza vs McCullough yet and don't know d story behind it , but i haven't seen a 42 years old man who could b even regarded as close 2 prime . I did read however that Zaragosa liked 2 party , which is 1 of d known prime shorteners .