To those who think the decision was fair..........
Stop and think. With all the indications to the contrary... with all the outpouring of disbelief and outrage over the decision... with the humongous majority believing it was a robbery... do you really (I mean really) in your heart believe the decision was fair? Just a small sampling of the indications to the contrary below:
1. CompuBox - Stop dumping on CompuBox 'cause it's the trendy thing to do. Contrary to what was stated in another thread, it's not only the overall punches in the fight that get counted. They're also counted round-by-round. And according to CompuBox, Pacquiao landed more punches than Bradley in 10 out of the 12 rounds. And to those who just don't believe in the concept, feel free to come up with another objective tool with which to judge a boxing match.
2. Tim Bradley himself was not sure he won the fight. He said he had to look at the tape. In all the years I've been watching boxing, I had never seen a fighter admit to something like that. This is likely the biggest proof of all.
3. ESPN's SportsCenter, who normally cares as much about boxing decisions as it does about chess match results, and has rarely questioned a high-profile fight decision openly..... said on the air that the "American Idol" judges would make better boxing judges than the ones who judged the fight.
4. Roger Mayweather, who admittedly feels that the possibility of a mega-fight between Floyd and Pac may have diminished with the result, but still very much dislikes and discredits Pacquiao.... said there was no way Bradley won the fight.
Not to mention the avalanche of boxing fans, trainers, boxing experts, etc. who all thought that Pac was robbed. All the major entities, such as the Associated Press, had Pacquiao winning comfortably. Yahoo Sports boxing experts were unanimous in their opinion. Sports Illustrated boxing analysts thought Pacquiao won comfortably. Beyond that, you just have to look at the results of the poll on this forum, in addition to the scores collected by "fightscorecollector"..... and it should start sinking in that there was no way in bloody hell that Bradley even came close to winning that fight.
The standard response: "Rewatch it without the audio" has already been done by more than a few, and the response is still the same. There is no "audio bias" excuse here.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Only the same people who discredit and dislike Pac thought Bradley won. The hate for pac is just as bad as the love for him, same thing goes for floyd. I guess when you get that good, that happens.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Oh btw, even Marquez said manny won alteast 4 rounds.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Stop and think.
2. Tim Bradley himself was not sure he won the fight. He said he had to look at the tape. In all the years I've been watching boxing, I had never seen a fighter admit to something like that. This is likely the biggest proof of all.
"Can you believe that? Unbelievable," Arum said. "I went over to Bradley before the decision and he said, 'I tried hard but I couldn't beat the guy.'"
bibliography:
Tim Bradley defeats Manny Pacquiao on controversial split decision | NJ.com
When the winning boxer knows he lost we have a problem.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
I forgot one other, very important and unprecedented reaction:
5. Paddy Power, the Irish betting site, refunded the money to all those who bet on Pacquiao... as someone else had already reported on the forum.
And if I were to keep searching, I'm sure I'd come up with a few other doozies.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Fuck off!
As if a boxer would say that!
Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!
As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D
The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Fuck off!
As if a boxer would say that!
Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!
As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D
The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D
"Ill have to go back and watch the tape and see if I won."
How many victorious boxers said that
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.
The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.
Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.
1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.
2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."
3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.
4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.
I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Hes being polite.
Manny hardly did the Hopkins act either;D
Many cant take drugs any more and has no skills, he falls over his own feet!
Watching the last round reminded me of Calzaghe v Lacy. Pacquiao just looks slow and clumsy against an actual live opponent.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Fuck off!
As if a boxer would say that!
Pacquaio hardly looked amazed when the decision was read out!
As for Marquez saying Manny wan 4 rounds.... There are 12!;D
The only people really upset with this decision are Arum, the Mayweathers and Pacquiaos team. They can now knock down the revenue for a Mayweather v Pacquiao fight down by at least 50%. even the die hard idiots in here with the tissues out do not beleive that on his best day Manny could beat Floyd and they wouldnt want to witness his slaughter;D
Whether or not Pacquiao would ever beat Floyd has nothing to do with the fact that this was still a bullshit decision.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Very unfair decision, Pac should have won a UD.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uptoscratch
To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.
The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.
Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.
1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.
2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."
3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.
4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.
I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.
Good post overall. However, I disagree with your assessment about Compubox for this fight. I'm perfectly aware that Compubox is not an exact science and can't be used to gauge an entire fight based on the total punches landed/thrown. But it also shows punches landed on a per round basis.
That being said, even if Compubox made an error in their tally - say give or take 20 punches for each fighter, it still stands that Pac clearly out landed Tim by a wide margin. In terms of power punches alone, Compubox had Manny out pointing Tim by almost 2 to 1. Not even close. I would agree with your assessment if the figures were closer but the margin on this fight seems to be definitive in Pac's favor.
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arcanum26
I wouldnt pay any attention to press row scores. They arent qualified judges and have likely never even trained to be a judge, which would be a good idea so they could try and give their readers an educated view rather than just their biased opinion. Also, its pro boxing not amateur, so compubox punch stats means nothing. Did you realise that any other punch than a jab is counted as a power punch?
Re: To those who think the decision was fair..........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
uptoscratch
To your first point, "stop and think," I would contend that anyone who is arguing that Bradley won or that it was a close fight that could have gone either way has already stopped and thought about the fight.
The folks in the media carrying on and toting around proverbial pitchforks, are the people who, in my opinion, have not stopped or thought. They're just echoing what they heard on the broadcast and from a few outspoken commentators.
Neither Compubox, nor Tim Bradley, nor Sportscenter, nor Roger Mayweather are perfectly objective or infallible sources of truth.
1. Compubox is a computer program that is operated by humans. It operates on a punch-by-punch basis, instead of a round-by-round basis, but that doesn't mean it's impervious to error. Humans still input the punches and they can be swayed by crowd noise and biases just as judges and commentators can.
(It is still the most objective tool available at the moment and, until some other revolutionary method comes along, it's all we've got, other than the observation and judgement of judges, some of whom could benefit from continuing education in the technique of judging prizefights. And yes.... it's based on a punch-by-punch basis, but these can be easily tabulated per round, rather than just over the entire fight, as was incorrectly stated by another poster).
2. Tim Bradley gave an honest answer and said he'd watch the fight to see how it went. That doesn't play into my opinion of the bout any more than the 1000s of boxers who all say they thought they won. I'm sure if Bradley knew that the media would hold his answer against him to further discredit his win he would've given the standard boilerplate response of "Of course I thought I won the fight."
(Bradley reportedly commented immediately after the fight that "he couldn't beat this guy" or something to that effect. The amount of weight anyone wants to put on a statement like that is strictly personal. I feel it carries a lot of weight).
3. Sportscenter anchors know as much about boxing as they do about nuclear physics. If I want an opinion on what hair gel to use, I'd listen to them carefully and respectfully. I'll determine my boxing opinions without their input.
(If was just SportsCenter complaining about the results, you'd have a stronger point. My point is to show the vast number of similar reactions to the same boxing decision).
4. Roger Mayweather has a huge financial interest in 1) preserving Pacquiao's drawing power for a fight with his nephew; and 2) in making sure that high-status, high profile fighters like Pacquiao -- and his nephew -- get the benefit of doubt from the judges in future contests even if it's not clear they were the better man in the ring.
(Yeah ok... I won't defend Roger Mayweather too much. He clearly is not a disinterested party).
I scored the fight a draw myself. If pressed to favor one man over the other, I would've favored Pacquiao after my first watch. But the more I read from disgruntled fans telling me I need to watch the fight over again, the more I am impressed by what Bradley was able to do.
(This statement gives away a little of subjectiveness on your part. If you're being swayed over the comments of others, then you've ceased to objectively judge the fight on its own merits).
See above.
