Freddie Roach great trainer: Overated, Underated or Truly Great?

Initially I thought he was fortunate to get Virgil Hill, James Toney and Manny Pacquiao.
First time I really paid attention he was in the corner of a guy named Justin Juuko.
I am VERY impressed with the list below. I didn't know he worked with so many greats.

But how many fighters did he rear and mold? His work with Hopkins he lost. Same with DLH, Cotto and now Postal.


United Kingdom British −Amir Khan Light Welterweight
Philippines Filipino −Ana Julaton(w) Super Bantamweight
Mexico Mexican Andy Ruiz Heavyweight
Philippines Filipino Dennis Bautista Featherweight
Republic of Ireland Irish −Bernard Dunne Super Bantamweight
United States American −Bernard Hopkins Light Heavyweight
Philippines Filipino Bobby Pacquiao Lightweight
United States American Brian Minto Cruiserweight
United States American −Brian Viloria Flyweight
United Kingdom British Craig McEwan Middleweight
United States American Daniel Jacobs Middleweight
United States American David Rodela Super Featherweight
Russia Russian −Dimitri Kirilov Super Flyweight
Philippines Filipino Diosdado Gabi Bantamweight
United States American Efrain Esquivias, Jr. Super Bantamweight
United States American −Frankie Liles Super Middleweight
United Kingdom British −Gary Stretch Super Welterweight
Cuba Cuban *Guillermo Rigondeaux Super Bantamweight
Philippines Filipino −Gerry Peñalosa Bantamweight
Mexico Mexican −Israel Vasquez Super Bantamweight
United States American −James Toney Heavyweight
Republic of Ireland Irish Jamie Kavanagh Lightweight
Canada Canadian -Jean Pascal Light heavyweight
Denmark Danish −Johnny Bredahl Bantamweight
United States American −Johnny Tapia Bantamweight
Venezuela Venezuelan −Jorge Linares Lightweight
United States American José Benavidez Light Welterweight
Mexico Mexican Juan Lazcano Lightweight
Mexico Mexican −Julio César Chávez, Jr. Middleweight
Armenia Armenian Kahren Harutyunyan Bantamweight
Nigeria Nigerian Kingsley Ikeke Super Middleweight
Nigeria Nigerian Lateef Kayode Cruiserweight
Netherlands Dutch −Lucia Rijker(w) Light Welterweight
Philippines Filipino -Manny Pacquiao Welterweight
United States American −Marlon Starling Welterweight
Philippines Filipino Michael Domingo Bantamweight
Philippines Filipino Michael Farenas Super Featherweight
United States American − Michael Moorer Light Heavyweight
United States American Mickey Rourke Light Heavyweight
Puerto Rico Puerto Rican *Miguel Cotto Middleweight
United States American −Mike Tyson Heavyweight
United States American −Oscar De La Hoya Welterweight Only for his fight with Mayweather (2007).
Jamaica Jamaican −O'Neil Bell Cruiserweight
United States American Peter Manfredo Jr. Middleweight
United States American Peter Quillin Middleweight
United States American Frankie Gómez Junior Welterweight
Mexico Mexican Raymundo Beltrán Lightweight
Philippines Filipino Rey Bautista Featherweight
Russia Russian −Roman Karmazin Light Heavyweight
Russia Russian Ruslan Provodnikov Light Welterweight
Republic of Ireland Irish −Steve Collins Super Middleweight
Armenia Armenian Vanes Martirosyan Super Welterweight
United States American −Virgil Hill Light Heavyweight
Northern Ireland Northern Irish −Wayne McCullough Featherweight
Ukraine Ukrainian *Wladimir Klitschko Heavyweight (former assistant trainer)
Nigeria Nigerian Wale Omotoso Welterweight
United States American Willie Jorrin Super Bantamweight
China Chinese Zou Shiming Flyweight


Excuse the cut n paste job

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

I agree with that, has to be self fulfilling once you've got a great stable, so tough to know. You think Freddie was giving James Toney anything? Take Roger or Floyd sr in the Mayweather corner! If you listen to what those guys tell Floyd between rounds, you've got to imagine a carrot would suffice in a pinch.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

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yeah but that's what Freddie has built


they come to Freddie's gym for the sparring


that adds to his trainer ability doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

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yeah but that's what Freddie has built


they come to Freddie's gym for the sparring


that adds to his trainer ability doesn't it?

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That was what Freddie inherited. Freddie was the underling. Eddie Futch is the legend Freddie's career was built on.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

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yeah but that's what Freddie has built


they come to Freddie's gym for the sparring


that adds to his trainer ability doesn't it?

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That was what Freddie inherited. Freddie was the underling. Eddie Futch is the legend Freddie's career was built on.

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I don't believe he inherited all of that. He respectfully learned all he could from Futch and good ol Mickey Rourke bought Freddie that gym with his fuck money.

Freddie is a great trainer and all greats are sought out by star fighters in hopes of making them just a little better. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Hulk

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

---

yeah but that's what Freddie has built


they come to Freddie's gym for the sparring


that adds to his trainer ability doesn't it?

---

That was what Freddie inherited. Freddie was the underling. Eddie Futch is the legend Freddie's career was built on.

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I don't believe he inherited all of that. He respectfully learned all he could from Futch and good ol Mickey Rourke bought Freddie that gym with his fuck money.

Freddie is a great trainer and all greats are sought out by star fighters in hopes of making them just a little better. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

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Freddie did his thing but he started out getting good fighters because people thought "he learned from Futch so he must be great". Truth is if you look at years Freddie won trainer of the year you will notice those years line up with when he trained great fighters and that is not a coincidence at all. Great trainers make many good fighters, great fighters make good trainers look like great trainers. Think of how Steward built his name, same thing. If you have great fighters you look great.

Roach is one of the most overrated trainers ever, and last night proved it. Pacquiao got exposed by Floyd, Cotto was looking like a new fighter until he fought Canelo, and now Postol got dominated by Crawford. Know what they all have in common? They all are/were trained by Roach.

If he hadn't found and trained a great talent like Pacquiao, I doubt anyone would even know who he is.

I think Postol should switch to a trainer who has him use his height and reach better, and tightens up his defense.

Pacquiao was "exposed" by Floyd, that's a good one. No trainer on earth would have led those guys to win those fights, and if Roach had happened to be in the opposite corner he would have gotten some credit. Can't have it both ways.

did he get out coached or did his fighter get out fought by someone heavier? younger/ fresher? stronger? Sometimes you do all you can but the other guys fighter just has more.

BoxRec - Brian McIntyre

This is the guy who trains Crawford, I'm sure nobody else could have taught the young man so much about the sweet science:p

This has been a debate for years. Roach is a pretty good trainer but overrated. With that said, postol wouldn't have beaten Crawford no matter who his trainer was.

Roach is overrated. That doesn't mean he isn't good though. But he doesn't teach defense and that is half of hit and don't get hit.

He did great with Pacquiao but with Pacs physical gifts he shouldn't have been so predictable. The book has been out on PAC for years and they haven't figured a way around it. Make PAC lead and step back making him overreach then counter. That is why they will choose Vargas. Crawford would counter him to pieces.

In my opinion what makes a great trainer is someone who has trained a fighter or fighters from the ground up to a world title. Steward, Futch and Sdunek have done it and I'm not sure Roach has. I think he is a very good trainer but not quite in the same class as those men.

I think Freddie is a great trainer, and definitely don't think he is underrated. James Toney, Manny, and Cotto all fought well with him in their corners. It's like saying Manny Steward wasn't great because Jermain Taylor fought like shit during their time together. Roach, Manny Steward, Eddie Futch, Bouie Fisher, Georgie Benton, brother Naz, and both Mayweathers are/were great trainers. All have had failures, because that is fighting, but all taught pupils a style that brought them to an elite level.

If we are talking overrated boxing trainers my #1 poster boy is Teddy Atlas. He's an overrated commentator in my opinion as well. If we are talking overrated regardless of discipline, I have Steven Seagal as #1 hype job.