Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
I was just skimming random vids and was reminded of this from Jorge Paez vs Silverio Ortiz in 2003 where referee Marty Salmon found himself in one of those ringside huddles with commission officials trying to clean this up. He verbally calls for break and goes hands on only to have one let loose while the other fails the truest rule..protect yourself at all times! Just a few thoughts...
Should there ever be a scenario when a fighter can 'win' on a foul? Or were they just trying to get out of the ring and look to clear it up off air. Was it a hard foul, just a fighters instinct on opening or just a lackadaisical ref..bit of all 3?
Was heavy favorite just given privilege after his own dumb mistake and initial ref call should have been supported..a KO? Or should the ref penalize the foul immediately, deduct a point, withhold a count and give downed fighter 5 minutes to recoup???
The announced result was later reversed and they went to the score cards..off air and well after those in charge already knew who was ahead. That alone is just shady as all helz. I always get a kick out of watching officials and commission reps, ref try to block cameras and muffle microphones so public and crowds cannot see or hear ;D. Marty Salmon heard in the background "I'm going to need security to get out of here" and "I guess that does it for my career".
Go to 31:50 to get gist of fight and lead to incident. http://youtu.be/FJ5Mi99RS7c
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
It’s unfortunate but when you hit on the break (like the video shows) there has to be some sort of penalty. I know you are supposed to protect yourself at all times but you can’t punch as the ref is breaking you up. At very least a NC is in order.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
I'm with Powerpuncher, the shot came after the ref had called break. Paez should have been given 5 minutes to recover and if he couldn't then it should have been a nc.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
I can't remember that fight!
I think it was legit and Paez was to blame.
Remember this one?
http://youtu.be/H12z1NifuUI?t=1474
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Fucking hell this is a classic.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
The first shot was desperation. Ortiz was getting ground down and was clinching every 2 seconds. He knew what he was doing. I agree with power puncher. No contest after 5 minutes.. Partially the refs fault for not getting in there and separating the fighters with both hands and prying them apart.
The punch after the bell was fair to me. They bother threw after the bell. One landed, one didn't.
Hitting on the break happens many times because the refs are lazy. They got the best seat in the house. So they walk around and peek and then don't do anything because they are forced to. For all the people saying the ref should be invisible, it doesn't mean that you cant be vocal. When two fighters get tied up, you can say:
- Punch it out (I'm not breaking this up yet so get your work in)
- Break (Release your grip and step the hell back) and then get in with both arms and wedge them apart.
- Stop holding (i've seen refs physically pry that hold hand off and let guys punch it out)
Too often refs now, let the fighters work it out because they themselves don't want to get hit breaking a clinch, assert themselves with a dirty fighter that might be raging (roid or other) or just plain don't know how to ref a fight.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
It’s unfortunate but when you hit on the break (like the video shows) there has to be some sort of penalty. I know you are supposed to protect yourself at all times but you can’t punch as the ref is breaking you up. At very least a NC is in order.
I was thinking similar and as J_Undisputed mentioned a much more definitive take charge ref helps avoid much of it. Once the ref gave instruction that was not followed and altered fight control was lost. Then he counted as to second guess him self while also indicating a foul???
I say deduct point on foul and allow time to recoup, NC if unable. But shoe on the other foot and it was Ortiz or a guy far behind we've seen guys try to milk a DQ win and play act on the canvas. All starts with ref and they need to be scrutinized as much as judges, more so really.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Definitaly a case for utilizing instant replay I think and we see it occasionally. But again, had roles been reversed doubt seriously Molinares would be afforded the second look.
Weird aftermath also. Good they reversed it in short order but odd that no rematch took place. Apparently Molinares was stripped because he couldn't make weight ? and then goes on to be ko'd by inferior competition twice and just disappears. Starling wins strap on card where Breland fights for vacant wba yet they never rematch either?
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So4fmOwRxqA
Most famous case of it...poor Sharkey got jobbed
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
I say protect yourself at all times. All times. Unless the foul is blatant, i.e., a guy running into another guy's corner like James Butler v Richard Grant, then really and truly what in the world would you think should happen?
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
Vitali Klitschko was actually quite adept at using the gaps in the rules to be more effective in his attack. Vitali unlike Wladimir, would after initiating a clinch break the clinch before the ref got there, the other fighter would be in kind of a lazy state thinking "Oh the ref will break us, I can drop my guard for a second and catch my breath".....wrong.
Mike Tyson was good at that as well. It's a great tactic for a pressure fighter to push his opponent up against the ropes, take a drop step and slam home some power punches. When Mike was tired the ref would break the fighters before Mike could initiate an attack and therefore it would stop him from completing a knockout or it would allow his opponent to recover.
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
This was a beauty. The ref gave Barker the KO win even though he'd shouted "stop boxing" twice and blocked Samuels right arm (;D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juTRNuehRhk
Re: Hitting on the break and resulting KOs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
That was brutal. Great memory as it's listed as just another KO with no circumstances. Yet another ref with reaction time of a distracted sloth not being there to call Barker kd.
