Someone needs to explain to me why Floyd doesn't deserve to be mentioned with ATGs

In boxing I'm so used to seeing guys get hit and rocked like that and start to fold mentally. Floyd doesn't even show pain or worry on his face, he just walked to his corner with a cocky grin on his face, made the adjustments, and wrecked Mosley's shit.

He has supreme natural athletic ability. He has forgotten more about boxing technique than most fighters will ever know. He has heart, composure, discipline. Mentally strong.

Yet people always balk at the though of him being mentioned with the legends of the sport.

I don't want to start a debate on where Floyd's place in history is. But what do guys like SRR, SRL, Ali, Duran, Pernell, Pep, Armstrong, ECT ECT ECT have that Floyd does not?

Someone needs to explain why he doesn't deserve to be mentioned with ATGs, because I don't understand it.

The guy is a living legend, and with the decline of boxing as it is, we'll probably never see a fighter like this again.

Agreed man, but irrational haters will always find a way to throw mud at him. Because Floyd has made himself the bad guy, he'll never be truly accepted and people will always want to and need to devalue his performances in any way they can. I'm no fan, but even I can see that he is an all-time great, without doubt.
I mean, he didn't just outbox Shane (a fellow all-time great) tonight, he bullied him around the ring and everything, and without breaking a sweat. Nobody could have foreseen that happening! I thought for sure he would box off the back foot for the whole fight en-route to a decision, but he proved me wrong in unbelievable fashion.



But wait, do I hear the cries of - 'Shane was past it!' - in the distance? ;)

Beanflicker, Floyd Mayweather Jr is a boxing legend. He could be the greatest boxer of all time. A performance like that does so much to show even the biggest Mayweather hater exactly why.

This guy is a living legend, and I don't believe that boxing is on the decline. I think Floyd Mayweather has done a lot to keep the sport alive. Floyd Mayweather's fights are huge. It's incredibly atmospheric to watch a Mayweather fight.

His boxing ability is top notch. Pacquiao would give Mayweather some problems early, but after 8 or 9 rounds, I gotta believe that Mayweather will be the stronger more in-control fighter.

I appreciate Floyd Mayweather for his craft. Say what you want about him, but he backs it up with incredible performances. This performance against Shane was one of his best.

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Lets compare, Sugar Ray Leonard, an all-time great to PBF.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought 40 fights in his career. 36-3-1, 25 KOs

Floyd Mayweather has fought 41 fights in his career. 41-0, 25 KOs

I mean yeah SRL fought some great opponents in the 80s, but Mayweather has a better record than SRL and has won a lot of big fights himself.

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.

And what do you mean he hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao? Pacquiao has losses and draws. Mayweather has no loses and no draws. And why would that disqualify Mayweather from being an all-time great even if it was true? (which it isn't)

And what has Pacquiao achieved that Mayweather hasn't?

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.





david tua
51-3-1
he fought more than pbf and srl he only lost 3 fights so does it make him an ATG?
its not how many you won and how little you lost. its who you won against and the way he finished that opponent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Who has Mayweather ducked?

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Originally Posted by doublehook2

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Lets compare, Sugar Ray Leonard, an all-time great to PBF.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought 40 fights in his career. 36-3-1, 25 KOs

Floyd Mayweather has fought 41 fights in his career. 41-0, 25 KOs

I mean yeah SRL fought some great opponents in the 80s, but Mayweather has a better record than SRL and has won a lot of big fights himself.

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.

And what do you mean he hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao? Pacquiao has losses and draws. Mayweather has no loses and no draws. And why would that disqualify Mayweather from being an all-time great even if it was true? (which it isn't)

And what has Pacquiao achieved that Mayweather hasn't?

---

SRL didn't have more fights because he had eye problems, which is why he retired for a few years and comeback. Im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but come on Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone close to.

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

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Originally Posted by ICB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doublehook2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Lets compare, Sugar Ray Leonard, an all-time great to PBF.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought 40 fights in his career. 36-3-1, 25 KOs

Floyd Mayweather has fought 41 fights in his career. 41-0, 25 KOs

I mean yeah SRL fought some great opponents in the 80s, but Mayweather has a better record than SRL and has won a lot of big fights himself.

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.

And what do you mean he hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao? Pacquiao has losses and draws. Mayweather has no loses and no draws. And why would that disqualify Mayweather from being an all-time great even if it was true? (which it isn't)

And what has Pacquiao achieved that Mayweather hasn't?

---

SRL didn't have more fights because he had eye problems, which is why he retired for a few years and comeback. Im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but come on Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone close to.

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

---

Is that Mayweather's fault though? There's no one who's resume out there has 4 people of those kind of ATG stature.


Personally I think people pay for legacy way too much, just because they weren't around in the 70s and didn't fight people who are now after their career is over seen as some of the greatest fighters of their generation. That should stay in their generation.

I think if you have a resume of beating the top fighters in YOUR generation, not the 70s, not the 80s, but now generation, then they deserve the same kind of recognition. Because 30 years from now come of these names will be on the ATG lists too.

In 41 pro fights there are only 3 fighters who Floyd did not meet who he definately could have; Williams, Cotto, and Margarito. He get's a pass for Williams for the same reason De la Hoya gets a pass for ducking Winky Wright, because it was a fight that flat out would not have sold to anyone but us hardcore fans. Mayweather-Cotto would have been huge at the time and Floyd used a bullsh!t excuse for not taking it. Mayweather-Margarito also would have sold alot and even though I think Floyd wins them all, it doesn't mean much if he never gets in the ring with them. That being said aside from Holyfield and Mosley there haven't been too many other fighters the past 20 years who have fought absolutely everyone they could have. Floyd is clearly an all time great and IMO top 10 p4p but can't make the claim for #1, at least not now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by doublehook2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Lets compare, Sugar Ray Leonard, an all-time great to PBF.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought 40 fights in his career. 36-3-1, 25 KOs

Floyd Mayweather has fought 41 fights in his career. 41-0, 25 KOs

I mean yeah SRL fought some great opponents in the 80s, but Mayweather has a better record than SRL and has won a lot of big fights himself.

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.

And what do you mean he hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao? Pacquiao has losses and draws. Mayweather has no loses and no draws. And why would that disqualify Mayweather from being an all-time great even if it was true? (which it isn't)

And what has Pacquiao achieved that Mayweather hasn't?

---

SRL didn't have more fights because he had eye problems, which is why he retired for a few years and comeback. Im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but come on Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone close to.

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

---

Yeah but come on Ice most people think he lost to three of them :D

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

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Yeah but come on Ice most people think he lost to three of them :D

---

SRL was a great fighter, but he was never as dominant as Mayweather is now. He never systematically destroyed any one of those guys like he did Mosley tonight. Yeah the second fight he embarrassed Duran, but that was after Duran already beat him. Tommy Hearns was ahead on the cards against SRL, and had that been a 12 round fight, he may have lost to Hearns. In their second fight, it was a draw, but SRL got knocked down twice against Hearns and most people thought Hearns won.

SRL did beat Hagler in a 12 round decision, and it was impressive, but it wasn't as dominant as Floyd looked tonight against Mosley.

It's a great comparison, and both are all-time greats for difference reasons.

What really does put Mayweather ahead of all these fighters is that he's undefeated. Mayweather is undefeated. These other all-time greats were not undefeated. Yeah Mayweather picks his opponents, but Mayweather has fought some of the best guys of this era, like Corrales, DLH, etc.

You gotta put Mayweather up there.

I don't know if Mayweather could beat guys like Williams or Foreman at 154 the way he beat a 38 year old Shane Mosley. PBF is a hall of famer, an all-time great. There's no way around it.

Is he beatable? Sure he is, as Shane showed tonight in the 2nd, but it would take something we haven't seen thus far against him. And you can't just do it one time.

Fighting Mayweather is kind of like facing Mike Tyson in Mike Tyson's Punch Out on the original Nintendo. One jab, hook combo by PBF may not knock you out, but it could deplete half your energy, like it did tonight to Shane in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

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Originally Posted by doublehook2

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

---

Yeah but come on Ice most people think he lost to three of them :D

---

SRL was a great fighter, but he was never as dominant as Mayweather is now. He never systematically destroyed any one of those guys like he did Mosley tonight. Yeah the second fight he embarrassed Duran, but that was after Duran already beat him. Tommy Hearns was ahead on the cards against SRL, and had that been a 12 round fight, he may have lost to Hearns. In their second fight, it was a draw, but SRL got knocked down twice against Hearns and most people thought Hearns won.

SRL did beat Hagler in a 12 round decision, and it was impressive, but it wasn't as dominant as Floyd looked tonight against Mosley.

It's a great comparison, and both are all-time greats for difference reasons.

What really does put Mayweather ahead of all these fighters is that he's undefeated. Mayweather is undefeated. These other all-time greats were not undefeated. Yeah Mayweather picks his opponents, but Mayweather has fought some of the best guys of this era, like Corrales, DLH, etc.

You gotta put Mayweather up there.

I don't know if Mayweather could beat guys like Williams or Foreman at 154 the way he beat a 38 year old Shane Mosley. PBF is a hall of famer, an all-time great. There's no way around it.

Is he beatable? Sure he is, as Shane showed tonight in the 2nd, but it would take something we haven't seen thus far against him. And you can't just do it one time.

Fighting Mayweather is kind of like facing Mike Tyson in Mike Tyson's Punch Out on the original Nintendo. One jab, hook combo by PBF may not knock you out, but it could deplete half your energy, like it did tonight to Shane in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

---

He never destroyed any of them ? well maybe thats because there some of the best fighters of all time. Do you honestly think Floyd Mayweather would dominate any of those fighters ? infact he could of lost to all 4 of them let alone dominating them.

Floyd Mayweather Jr is great but lets not go overboard here, Shane Mosley has clearly seen better days. And got overrated because of his win over Antonio Margarito, outside of that he looked bad vs Ricardo Mayorga. And lost to Miguel Cotto.

Very impressive performance from Floyd Mayweather Jr, and he is one of the greats. But thats hardly like stopping Tommy Hearns in the 14th round, in one of the best fights of all time. Against one of the best fighters of all time.

As the great Eddie Futch once said, "When you keep on fighting top level caliber opponents, you ain't going undefeated."

Leonard fought guys that are highly ranked in boxing history. Hagler is arguably the greatest MW ever. Hearns is a top 25 fighter easily, Duran is ranked by Ring Magazine as a top 5 fighter. Benitez is a top 50 fighter.

That's a hell of a resume.

I like Floyd a lot, but the comparisons of the 2 resumes is way off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

As the great Eddie Futch once said, "When you keep on fighting top level caliber opponents, you ain't going undefeated."

Leonard fought guys that are highly ranked in boxing history. Hagler is arguably the greatest MW ever. Hearns is a top 25 fighter easily, Duran is ranked by Ring Magazine as a top 5 fighter. Benitez is a top 50 fighter.

That's a hell of a resume.

I like Floyd a lot, but the comparisons of the 2 resumes is way off.

---

Fair enough, but Leonard fighting in an era where there were better fighters shouldn't disqualify Mayweather from being considered an all-time great.

In this era, Mayweather has a very, very impressive resume. And despite the fact that he didn't fight Hagler, Hearns, and Duran, he still fought some of the guys of this era.

If you say that comparing SRL to Mayweather is way off, then how does someone like Roy Jones Jr compare to Sugar Ray Leonard in your opinion?

Is Roy Jones Jr resume more impressive than Mayweather? Is Roy Jones Jr more of an all-time great than Mayweather?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Who has Mayweather ducked?

---

Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Truth

I said before the fight that Shane was past it and it would be a lopsided Mayweather decision. Floyd isn't mentioned w/ ATG's because
A)Ducked too much top opposition
B)Safety first fighting Style
C)He hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao
D)The one which I believe is most important. We don't know what we got till it's gone.

---

Who has Mayweather ducked?

---

Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

---

Why did floyd have to fight Hatton at 140? I believe Hatton needed that fight more than Floyd, Floyd was ranked no 1 P4P best in the world so why would he fight at someone elses weight? Hatton wanted to prove he was the best so he had to beat the best at their own weight. We all saw what Mosley did to Margarito, Mayweather would of beaten the shit out of him and same with Cotto. He is a different class all together. I think you can only say someone ducked a fighter when the fighter they supposedly ducked is actually a threat. How was Margarito, Hatton at 140 and Cotto a threat? What did we actually see that showed this guys could hang with floyd at all? Cotto would of been systematically dismantled and tkoed very similiar to what Floyd did to hatton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by doublehook2

Lets compare, Sugar Ray Leonard, an all-time great to PBF.

Sugar Ray Leonard fought 40 fights in his career. 36-3-1, 25 KOs

Floyd Mayweather has fought 41 fights in his career. 41-0, 25 KOs

I mean yeah SRL fought some great opponents in the 80s, but Mayweather has a better record than SRL and has won a lot of big fights himself.

For people who say Mayweather ducked competition, he has had more fights than SRL did, an all-time great.

And what do you mean he hasn't achieved as much as Pacquiao? Pacquiao has losses and draws. Mayweather has no loses and no draws. And why would that disqualify Mayweather from being an all-time great even if it was true? (which it isn't)

And what has Pacquiao achieved that Mayweather hasn't?

---

SRL didn't have more fights because he had eye problems, which is why he retired for a few years and comeback. Im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but come on Floyd Mayweather Jr hasn't fought anyone close to.

Wilfredo Benitez
Tommy Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Roberto Duran

---

Yeah but come on Ice most people think he lost to three of them :D

---

And one of them just gave up!

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by Hunter

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Who has Mayweather ducked?

---

Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

---

Why did floyd have to fight Hatton at 140? I believe Hatton needed that fight more than Floyd, Floyd was ranked no 1 P4P best in the world so why would he fight at someone elses weight? Hatton wanted to prove he was the best so he had to beat the best at their own weight. We all saw what Mosley did to Margarito, Mayweather would of beaten the shit out of him and same with Cotto. He is a different class all together. I think you can only say someone ducked a fighter when the fighter they supposedly ducked is actually a threat. How was Margarito, Hatton at 140 and Cotto a threat? What did we actually see that showed this guys could hang with floyd at all? Cotto would of been systematically dismantled and tkoed very similiar to what Floyd did to hatton.

---

I completely agree, all of the 'Mayweather beaters' Floyd has allegedly dodged have been exposed as overrated hype products pretty much.

The way it seems to work is that Floyd beats up someone so that was clearly a handpicked opponent and the guys he hasn't fought yet are the world beaters.

There is NOBODY from superfeatherweight to welterweight who was around during Floyd's career that could have beaten him.

Look at the tests, Coralles annihilated, Hatton humiliated, Mosely schooled, these are all great fighters and the got there asses handed to them by Floyd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter

Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

---

Why did floyd have to fight Hatton at 140? I believe Hatton needed that fight more than Floyd, Floyd was ranked no 1 P4P best in the world so why would he fight at someone elses weight? Hatton wanted to prove he was the best so he had to beat the best at their own weight. We all saw what Mosley did to Margarito, Mayweather would of beaten the shit out of him and same with Cotto. He is a different class all together. I think you can only say someone ducked a fighter when the fighter they supposedly ducked is actually a threat. How was Margarito, Hatton at 140 and Cotto a threat? What did we actually see that showed this guys could hang with floyd at all? Cotto would of been systematically dismantled and tkoed very similiar to what Floyd did to hatton.

---

I completely agree, all of the 'Mayweather beaters' Floyd has allegedly dodged have been exposed as overrated hype products pretty much.

The way it seems to work is that Floyd beats up someone so that was clearly a handpicked opponent and the guys he hasn't fought yet are the world beaters.

There is NOBODY from superfeatherweight to welterweight who was around during Floyd's career that could have beaten him.

Look at the tests, Coralles annihilated, Hatton humiliated, Mosely schooled, these are all great fighters and the got there asses handed to them by Floyd.

---

Im not sure Hatton was a "great" fighter.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Snakey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter

Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

---

Why did floyd have to fight Hatton at 140? I believe Hatton needed that fight more than Floyd, Floyd was ranked no 1 P4P best in the world so why would he fight at someone elses weight? Hatton wanted to prove he was the best so he had to beat the best at their own weight. We all saw what Mosley did to Margarito, Mayweather would of beaten the shit out of him and same with Cotto. He is a different class all together. I think you can only say someone ducked a fighter when the fighter they supposedly ducked is actually a threat. How was Margarito, Hatton at 140 and Cotto a threat? What did we actually see that showed this guys could hang with floyd at all? Cotto would of been systematically dismantled and tkoed very similiar to what Floyd did to hatton.

---

I completely agree, all of the 'Mayweather beaters' Floyd has allegedly dodged have been exposed as overrated hype products pretty much.

The way it seems to work is that Floyd beats up someone so that was clearly a handpicked opponent and the guys he hasn't fought yet are the world beaters.

There is NOBODY from superfeatherweight to welterweight who was around during Floyd's career that could have beaten him.

Look at the tests, Coralles annihilated, Hatton humiliated, Mosely schooled, these are all great fighters and the got there asses handed to them by Floyd.

---

Was not the case...and history will read it as mosley was 38 and got old..couldn't even do what made him shane mosley his whole career..

I don't think it matters who he fights at this stage, nobody is ever going to outbox him. The only chance he has of losing imo is if he fights somebody much naturally bigger and gets stopped.

I can't name 10 fighters in history that have the talent this guy has, he is definitely top 10 of all time imo. He belongs in the same breathe (and above a lot) of these guys

Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pepp, Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker, Benny Leonard, Jimmy Wilde, Roy Jones Jnr and Harry Greb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Im not sure Hatton was a "great" fighter.

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He was before Floyd got through with him. I remember him routinely showing up in lists of the greatest 140lbers of all time, showing up and sometimes topping names like Aaron Pryor, JCC, Tyszu, ect.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Im not sure Hatton was a "great" fighter.

---

He was before Floyd got through with him. I remember him routinely showing up in lists of the greatest 140lbers of all time, showing up and sometimes topping names like Aaron Pryor, JCC, Tyszu, ect.

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Oh come on bro you know im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but Ricky Hatton was never a great fighter nowhere close to it. He was a good or very good fighter, but there's a big gap between very good and great.

Putting all the "who's era was tougher" or "who fought the better opposition" stuff aside, would any of you guys honestly pick a lot of these mentioned names against Floyd?

I think the only guy mentioned who can hang with him in the ring is a WW SRR.

Sure, SRL fought the better opposition. But putting Floyd up against guys like Duran, Benitez, and Sugar himself, do you honestly think these guys beat him? To be honest, I don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Putting all the "who's era was tougher" or "who fought the better opposition" stuff aside, would any of you guys honestly pick a lot of these mentioned names against Floyd?

I think the only guy mentioned who can hang with him in the ring is a WW SRR.

Sure, SRL fought the better opposition. But putting Floyd up against guys like Duran, Benitez, and Sugar himself, do you honestly think these guys beat him? To be honest, I don't.

---

Wilfredo Benitez in his prime before he got into the partying life style, would of gave Floyd Mayweather Jr fits. Roberto Duran would of beat him at Lightweight, and i'd pick SRL and Tommy Hearns over him at Welterweight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Oh come on bro you know im a big Floyd Mayweather Jr fan, but Ricky Hatton was never a great fighter nowhere close to it. He was a good or very good fighter, but there's a big gap between very good and great.

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Oh I agree, very good but not great. I'm just relaying the consensus at the time.

Just pointing out that people will always diminish his wins. before the Hatton fight, it was "Oh finally Floyd is fighting another great, he has the style like Castillo, all you need to do is steady pressure Floyd and get him out of his comfort zone, ect ect."

Now its "well Ricky was never that good to begin with".

I don't have a problem with Floyd being designated an ATG. But people get carried away with the comparisons. I invite people on here to obtain and watch SRL's fights against Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez. Only THEN can you pass judgement objectively. Those were glory days in boxing, and all of the above were ATGs as well. Floyd deserves the credit he's getting... but do some research before you annoint him The Greatest Ever in Boxing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Wilfredo Benitez in his prime before he got into the partying life style, would of gave Floyd Mayweather Jr fits. Roberto Duran would of beat him at Lightweight, and i'd pick SRL and Tommy Hearns over him at Welterweight.

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This is a rare time where I'm gonna have to disagree with ya, bro. I see SRL being outboxed by Floyd (hell, Tommy foxed him for most of the first fight and virtually all the second one). Tommy is a big threat to Floyd or anyone for that matter due to his power, speed and reach, but he's way too chinny for me to pick him against Floyd.

To be honest I see Floyd stopping Hearns in the later rounds, battering him with that lazer counter right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ICB

Wilfredo Benitez in his prime before he got into the partying life style, would of gave Floyd Mayweather Jr fits. Roberto Duran would of beat him at Lightweight, and i'd pick SRL and Tommy Hearns over him at Welterweight.

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This is a rare time where I'm gonna have to disagree with ya, bro. I see SRL being outboxed by Floyd (hell, Tommy foxed him for most of the first fight and virtually all the second one). Tommy is a big threat to Floyd or anyone for that matter due to his power, speed and reach, but he's way too chinny for me to pick him against Floyd.

To be honest I see Floyd stopping Hearns in the later rounds, battering him with that lazer counter right.

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Tommy Hearns outboxed SRL because he's 6'1, with a ridiculous reach. He's probably one of the best Welterweights of all time. I mean really who the hell could outbox Tommy Hearns at Welterweight ?

SRL is amazing his speed is amazing, his footwork is amazing. He's naturally bigger than Floyd Mayweather Jr, and his power is pretty good aswell.

Tommy Hearns didn't have a weak chin at Welterweight, and there's no way he would come forward against Tommy Hearns. He would be outboxed over 12 rounds. Just like SRL would do to Floyd Mayweather Jr.

I think your going way over the top, just because he beat a Shane Mosley. Who has been battered by Vernon Forrest in the past, outboxed handily twice by Winky Wright, and looked less than impressive lately vs Cotto, Mayorga.

Was it a great performance ? yes but you need to just calm down, and realize what your saying. Just because he beat a 38 year old Shane Mosley, doesn't mean he beats Hearns, Leonard. Thats just crazy talk.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I don't have a problem with Floyd being designated an ATG. But people get carried away with the comparisons. I invite people on here to obtain and watch SRL's fights against Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez. Only THEN can you pass judgement objectively. Those were glory days in boxing, and all of the above were ATGs as well. Floyd deserves the credit he's getting... but do some research before you annoint him The Greatest Ever in Boxing.

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Well hell, I don't claim to be the #1 boxing historian out there, but I'm an avid collector of boxing tapes. I have career sets of just about everyone I've mentioned here (Hearns, Hagler, SRL, Duran, Pernell, Benitez, ect). I'm also a self-professed SRR FANATIC, and I think over the years I've seen just about every one of his fights that was filmed. So even though I'm not the most knowledgable guy here, I do my homework, and I'm not talking out of my ass with some fan boy Floyd nuthuggery.

All I'm saying is when I pop a Floyd fight into my DVD player, I see the same greatness that I see when I pop in the fights of other ATGs. When valuing a guy as a fighter, statistics and resume is fine, but at the end of the day it comes down to your in-ring work. And I contend that not only does Floyd match the in-ring work of a lot of these ATGs, he actually exceeds the vast majority of them.

Whenever I ask why Floyd doesn't belong in the same catagory with a guy like SRR, I always get the same answers...

"Well he ducked a bunch of guys."

Who did he duck? And pretty much every ATG (including SRR and SRL) has been accused of ducking someone or other.

"Well the old timers fought 100's of times, Floyd only fought 40 times."

Well, these guys fought before the time of multi-million dollar pay days. I doubt SRR fought several times a month because he wanted to. He was like Floyd, he was an arrogant master athlete who had a taste for fine living. Just because they had it "tougher" than today's greats does not mean necessarily that they were better.

"Those guys had better resumes than Floyd"

Maybe so. I would argue how guys like Jake LaMotta, Joey Archer and Bobo Olsen were better than guys like JLC, Hatton, Mosley, ect but thats for another thread I guess. But what is tough adversity good for other than exposing whether or not a fighter has the certain qualities that make for a champion? Qualities like heart, determination, toughness, mental composure, ability to take punishment, adapt, ect. Floyd has shown all of these qualities in battle, so what more can you ask of him?

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Originally Posted by ICB

I think your going way over the top, just because he beat a Shane Mosley. Who has been battered by Vernon Forrest in the past, outboxed handily twice by Winky Wright, and looked less than impressive lately vs Cotto, Mayorga.

Was it a great performance ? yes but you need to just calm down, and realize what your saying. Just because he beat a 38 year old Shane Mosley, doesn't mean he beats Hearns, Leonard. Thats just crazy talk.

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This isn't sparked by the win over Mosley, which went pretty much as I expected it to sans the 2nd round. It was sparked more by the fact that Floyd was badly rocked (which he hasn't been in about 6 or 7 years) and instead of folding he showed a champion's composure. A lot of people question his heart, and I think that once again he showed that he is a tough guy when he needs to be.

Hearns is also an absolute SUCKER for a counter right hand.

Beanflicker....if Hearns caught Floyd like that there would have been no need to follow up.


I will say the main thing I was disappointed in is Floyd STILL never looks like he has been in a fight!!! I want his face busted up at least, an eye swole up, a big cut, a broken jaw....SOMETHING but nope he never gets dinged up. Those wobbles were satisfying to watch though....and that is sad.

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by Hunter

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Originally Posted by Majesty

Who has Mayweather ducked?

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Whether he ducked opposition is subjective but it doesnt always seem that Floyd's top objective is fighting the best. He didnt fight Hatton at 140 and didnt seem in any kind of rush to fight Margarito or Cotto back a few years ago when the fans demanded those fights. Now with the demands for rigorous blood testing, Floyd, in some peoples minds will appear as though he is afraid of Pac. Personally I believe Floyd would dominate Pac and should just take the dam fight.

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Why did floyd have to fight Hatton at 140? I believe Hatton needed that fight more than Floyd, Floyd was ranked no 1 P4P best in the world so why would he fight at someone elses weight? Hatton wanted to prove he was the best so he had to beat the best at their own weight. We all saw what Mosley did to Margarito, Mayweather would of beaten the shit out of him and same with Cotto. He is a different class all together. I think you can only say someone ducked a fighter when the fighter they supposedly ducked is actually a threat. How was Margarito, Hatton at 140 and Cotto a threat? What did we actually see that showed this guys could hang with floyd at all? Cotto would of been systematically dismantled and tkoed very similiar to what Floyd did to hatton.

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I am not saying anyone would have beaten Floyd but if Floyd wanted respect and to be considered an ATG or the best ever he should have fought the best fighter at each division when he moved up. Hatton was the king at 140, Mayweather moved up past 140 but didnt fight Hatton, when Floyd was at 147 he fought Judah who had just lost instead of Margarito or Cottto. This is why he gets flamed in the press and people dont hail him as great. Yeah at this point I agree he would have probably dominated all of these guys because they were later exposed but imagine if Floyd would have KO'd Hatton at 140 as he moved up to Welter than beat Cotto while he was undefeated and than Beat down Margarito when he was supposedly unbeatable? Floyd would be getting alot more respect now.

There's a fair point to be made on both sides really, Floyd does make a lot of todays fighters look amateurish, but sure he has ducked some fighters who, although may have been exposed now, were deemed to be the best at their weight at the time.

There's no real definite way to compare him though with SRL, SRR and co. cos he never fought them of course. Sure they fought better fighters in a better era but, styles make fights, just cos you beat one fighter doesnt mean you beat the fighter deemed less of a fighter than him. So maybe Floyd beats them all, maybe he gets found out by all the ATG's, who knows. If that makes sense at all haha.

Theres a post above me that makes a very valid point, if Floyd had fought Cotto, Margarito and co. when they were at the top of their game...I think now we would have expected him to beat them, and now, he would definitely have more of a shot at being considered an all time great.

Imagine the PPV buys for Floyd v SRL, jesus!

Floyd already is an ATG, it's just about how high he is. I don't think anyone but the biggest Floyd hater could deny him a spot in the Top 30, and you could make a decent argument already for Top 10.

Like I said in another thread, SRR, SRL and even Duran were all accused of avoiding certain fighters (although I don't believe it's true in the case of Duran), it hasn't stopped them being considered the best there has ever been.

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Floyd already is an ATG, it's just about how high he is. I don't think anyone but the biggest Floyd hater could deny him a spot in the Top 30, and you could make a decent argument already for Top 10.

Like I said in another thread, SRR, SRL and even Duran were all accused of avoiding certain fighters (although I don't believe it's true in the case of Duran), it hasn't stopped them being considered the best there has ever been.

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I know about SRR supposedly avoiding Charles Burley, and SRL supposedly avoiding Aaron Pryor. But who did Roberto Duran supposedly avoid ? i thought he fought pretty much everyone didn't he ?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Floyd already is an ATG, it's just about how high he is. I don't think anyone but the biggest Floyd hater could deny him a spot in the Top 30, and you could make a decent argument already for Top 10.

Like I said in another thread, SRR, SRL and even Duran were all accused of avoiding certain fighters (although I don't believe it's true in the case of Duran), it hasn't stopped them being considered the best there has ever been.

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I know about suppoedly SRR avoiding Charles Burley, and SRL supposedly ducking Aaron Pryor. But who did Roberto Duran supposedly duck ? i thought he fought pretty much everyone didn't he ?

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Pryor again. Like I said, I don't personally buy that he ducked him, I think Duran would have taken on anybody, but I have heard that one thrown around.

Robinson did avoid Burley like the plague and was very careful about picking his fights (hence why he reportedly never gave Jose Basora a rematch when he got a debatable draw)

Leonard really did pick his fights, certainly following his win over Hearns. Leonard & Robinson are two of my favourite fighters, but it's amazing the rose-tinted spectacles many current fans who are unaware of boxing history view them through (not accusing you of that Ice, just a lot of people on here).

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Floyd already is an ATG, it's just about how high he is. I don't think anyone but the biggest Floyd hater could deny him a spot in the Top 30, and you could make a decent argument already for Top 10.

Like I said in another thread, SRR, SRL and even Duran were all accused of avoiding certain fighters (although I don't believe it's true in the case of Duran), it hasn't stopped them being considered the best there has ever been.

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I know about suppoedly SRR avoiding Charles Burley, and SRL supposedly ducking Aaron Pryor. But who did Roberto Duran supposedly duck ? i thought he fought pretty much everyone didn't he ?

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Pryor again. Like I said, I don't personally buy that he ducked him, I think Duran would have taken on anybody, but I have heard that one thrown around.

Robinson did avoid Burley like the plague and was very careful about picking his fights (hence why he reportedly never gave Jose Basora a rematch when he got a debatable draw)

Leonard really did pick his fights, certainly following his win over Hearns. Leonard & Robinson are two of my favourite fighters, but it's amazing the rose-tinted spectacles many current fans who are unaware of boxing history view them through (not accusing you of that Ice, just a lot of people on here).

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Yea i agree somewhat Wilfredo Benitez, Tommy Hearns. Should of had immediate rematches, and the Marvin Hagler fight should of happened 3 years before it actually did. Aswell as avoiding some of the young guns, but i can't blame him for that.

I don't really know about SRR just alot of rumours and ETC, i heard Charles Burley sparked out SRR in sparring. But thats probably a myth, SRR also supposedly avoided another well known fighter, but his name escapes me at the moment.

But even the greatest fighters have at somepoint picked fights carefully.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by ICB

I know about suppoedly SRR avoiding Charles Burley, and SRL supposedly ducking Aaron Pryor. But who did Roberto Duran supposedly duck ? i thought he fought pretty much everyone didn't he ?

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Pryor again. Like I said, I don't personally buy that he ducked him, I think Duran would have taken on anybody, but I have heard that one thrown around.

Robinson did avoid Burley like the plague and was very careful about picking his fights (hence why he reportedly never gave Jose Basora a rematch when he got a debatable draw)

Leonard really did pick his fights, certainly following his win over Hearns. Leonard & Robinson are two of my favourite fighters, but it's amazing the rose-tinted spectacles many current fans who are unaware of boxing history view them through (not accusing you of that Ice, just a lot of people on here).

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Yea i agree somewhat Wilfredo Benitez, Tommy Hearns. Should of had immediate rematches, and the Marvin Hagler fight should of happened 3 years before it actually did.

I don't really know about SRR just alot of rumours or ETC, i heard he sparked out SRR in sparring. But thats probably a myth, he also supposedly avoided another well known fighter, but his name escapes me at the moment.

But even the greatest fighters have at somepoint picked fights carefully.

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Exactly my point Ice, they've all done it, yet I've seen so many people dismiss Mayweather & Pacquiao as being ATGs off not fighting far less noteworthy guys than many of these greats have missed off.

I agree about the Burley sparking him out myth, although what I would say is that Robinson never did well with quicker counter-punchers. However, I think more likely Burley beat him up a bit and it became exaggerated, but the fact is he wanted none of it.

I'll give Leonard a pass on the Benitez fight, as he moved straight up to Light-Middle, and he did take on Duran & Hearns after that. But Hearns deserved a rematch sometime before 1989, and he took the piss with the shit he pulled with Hagler. Not to say he avoided anybody, but he always made sure things were favourable to him.

You won't find any fighter who's called the shots who hasn't done the same.