Exactly, dude doing the interview almost immediately had a lump in his throat when he suggested Loma was number one. Who e beat....who e beat. Fucking 'Journalist' ;D
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Exactly, dude doing the interview almost immediately had a lump in his throat when he suggested Loma was number one. Who e beat....who e beat. Fucking 'Journalist' ;D
Kovalev fans will be saying he hurt his shoulder next like Pac man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
Just accept the greater skillset on this occasion.
Kovalev fouled by hitting on the back of the head and that is a far more dangerous situation.
I hope they fight again.
No one wants to see an immediate rematch.
Kov needs to earn a shot and the best way would be to beat Adonis.
I wanted Ward beaten to a pulp as much as anybody. But twice is enough for me. Kovalev had all the chances in the world to reverse the results of the first fight. As someone said earlier.... you feel you're getting hit low and the ref does nothing about it? Retaliate! You know Ward's gonna wrestle and get shots off inside? Maul back. It's not like Ward is the bigger man. I've seen enough. On to greener pastures. Unfortunately, the chances of Ward now retiring undefeated have taken a quantum step forward. He can go back to relative inactivity.... pick and choose a few more opponents.... and cash in his chips. Kov was my main hope and it's vanished.
Is there anyone here with the stones to say if Ward doesn't land that last shot low Segey would win?
No but the ref should see it and call it. Also it denied a legitimate ending for Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Why would anyone need to? Kovolev looked like he was done so just let a blatant shot to the sack slide? To be honest Im not surprised by your fucked up logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I agree completelyQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterNo but the ref should see it and call it. Also it denied a legitimate ending for Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Ah, personal attack and putting words in my mouth while not answering the question. You know you expose yourself when you use that type of argument right?Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisWhy would anyone need to? Kovolev looked like he was done so just let a blatant shot to the sack slide? To be honest Im not surprised by your fucked up logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
To your first question. Because it is absurd to boil an entire fight down to a low blow when the low blow didn't determine the fight. To your second, I have never said to let the low blow slide. But I appreciate your attempt to obfuscate
OK, I thought it was pretty clear that I'd answered. Not in the way you wanted I'll give you that, but answer nonetheless I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonAh, personal attack and putting words in my mouth while not answering the question. You know you expose yourself when you use that type of argument right?Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisWhy would anyone need to? Kovolev looked like he was done so just let a blatant shot to the sack slide? To be honest Im not surprised by your fucked up logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
To your first question. Because it is absurd to boil an entire fight down to a low blow when the low blow didn't determine the fight. To your second, I have never said to let the low blow slide. But I appreciate your attempted to obfuscate
Anyhoo. Lets make this crystal. I've clearly construedasQuote:
Is there anyone here with the stones to say if Ward doesn't land that last shot low Segey would win?
So I apologise for that.Quote:
If you think Kovalev could have come back you're an idiot so the low blow didnt actually matter
What did you mean? Whats the point in this comment?
Not a conclusive ending, which is a shame. It was definitely low blows too, and the referee jumped in much to early.
Having said that, Ward wasn't rusty this time and he knew what to expect from Kovalevs power. I think Andre worked Kovalev out and Sergei couldn't do anything with him at all. He was getting frustrated, which makes you tired and he was ready to be taken out by Ward at the time of the stoppage.
It looked to me a little bit like Kovalev was looking for a way out.
The point is that many things happened in this fight and the whole of the fight should be considered. But some want to ignore the whole of the fight for one detail that did not determine the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisOK, I thought it was pretty clear that I'd answered. Not in the way you wanted I'll give you that, but answer nonetheless I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonAh, personal attack and putting words in my mouth while not answering the question. You know you expose yourself when you use that type of argument right?Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisWhy would anyone need to? Kovolev looked like he was done so just let a blatant shot to the sack slide? To be honest Im not surprised by your fucked up logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
To your first question. Because it is absurd to boil an entire fight down to a low blow when the low blow didn't determine the fight. To your second, I have never said to let the low blow slide. But I appreciate your attempted to obfuscate
Anyhoo. Lets make this crystal. I've clearly construedasQuote:
Is there anyone here with the stones to say if Ward doesn't land that last shot low Segey would win?
So I apologise for that.Quote:
If you think Kovalev could have come back you're an idiot so the low blow didnt actually matter
What did you mean? Whats the point in this comment?
It's like talking about Morales vs Pacquiao I and only discussing Pacquiao's wrong socks.(if that was the bad socks fight)
But more than that there is a clear trend in this sport where it's people trying to tear down a fight or fighter vs those that think they deserve credit. And talking about the low blow ad nauseam is clearly to tear down the winner. It is not to let people know there was a low blow, otherwise one video would be enough. One comment. But it's again and again and again. It's not even about the low blow, it's "Andre can get no credit. Look. Look. Look. Look. Look. Look. No credit".(not pointing a finger at anyone specific) And it stands in the way of actually discussing the fight.
I want to hear what makes Kovalev's jab so good. Where his right went? How Ward managed to make the hook such a part of this fight? On and on, all the aspects. Not one repeated until the thread dies.
...and Dwyer was part of Ward's legal team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
If you watch when he stands up the cameras caught him smiling. Not a "they screwed me smile" but a "glad that's over" smile. For some reason I can't post pictures on this site or I'd go get one.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
There are many ways to interpret a smile and I am sure he would never consciously smile at being glad he lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIf you watch when he stands up the cameras caught him smiling. Not a "they screwed me smile" but a "glad that's over" smile. For some reason I can't post pictures on this site or I'd go get one.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
They were both getting tired.
You never make fair and objective posts, you defend injustice as long as it benefits the black boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Come on freedom you know he can be a cynical cunt with his posts but never racist. Take that back now. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by FreedomYou never make fair and objective posts, you defend injustice as long as it benefits the black boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Curious because I'm white ad I want to discuss all details of the fight. Nice how you have the one detail you wish to discuss in every post. Objective.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomYou never make fair and objective posts, you defend injustice as long as it benefits the black boxer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
For the record, I said Kovalev seemed fragile before the fight(played out right). I said Kovalev was ahead during the fight(curious for someone who only cares to support black boxers). I said Kovalev was gassing badly and in trouble before the stoppage. Perhaps since things played out as I saw them I just am very good at being objective. I could see saying I wasn't objective if I got it wrong.
Abel Sanchez's opinion of the fight
https://youtu.be/e8dKRg5lCiU
I think Kovalev could have won, absolutely.
I would entertain a 3rd fight in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Ward was robbed from finishing Kovalev.
Remember, Ward could have stayed at 168 and beat the Degale, Groves and Jacks of the division.
He went looking for Kovalev..he never went for Stevenson..he stepped up straight to the top dog of the division.
Give Ward some credit FFS.
blows were low, but Kov was getting whipped in that last 4 minutes rds 7 and 8
however Ward should have lost a point and Kov given 5 minutes
Aside from all the expert "Monday morning quarterbacking", I'll just admit to being befuddled at how Kovalev had the fight stopped...... from all angles. Were Ward's shots low? IMO, yes. Was Kovalev frustrated by the various low blows he received? Yes. Why didn't Kovalev try to retaliate in kind... being the bully he's been? I haven't the foggiest idea. Did the ref do the fight thing? I guess. Kovalev doubled over and was offering no resistance, leaving the ref no choice. That is what surprises me the most. Kovalev was an angry fighter coming into the fight. He knew what to expect. So what happened? We'll never know. Does any of this take away from Ward? No. I was rooting for Kovalev, but the better man won. At least the man who appeared to want it the most. Now Ward has another "title" to add to S.O.G. He can now claim p4p #1. He'll get an argument for sure... but he can at least force himself into the discussion. He'll probably add a few bums to his record, retire undefeated, and challenge Floyd for TBE rights, no matter how ludicrous. Kov really let me down.
Kovalev put up on twitter yesterday admitting that ward fought well and fought better than the first fight. And he wants another fight with him. Nothing about the low blows, just about having to fight two people in the ring (obviously meaning the ref).
Viewpoint #1: Ward is an all time great. Undefeated, supremely intelligent and adaptable in the ring during fights. Blazinglu fast hands and the best infighter since Roberto Duran.
Viewpoint #2: Ward is hugely overrated. Long periods of inactivity, cherry picking opponent, always has the lions share of any contract terms and conditions. A boring fighter, always fights dirty, leading with his head, elbowing after missing punches, low blows galore.
:confused:
is ward lb4lb tho, is a win over froch and 2 over kov in 6 years enough to put you at that level?
his next best win was either Kessler, which was an atrocious fight, or Dawson?
look at some of his other wins too, ones that look decent on paper
Allan Green on points, all the trouble in the world v sakio bika, less than convincing win against AA, even 9 rounds with paul smith, Miranda on points
all these fighters have been beaten much more convincingly by other fighters
Ok. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?
well it might be opinion that ward would beat anyone at any weight but I personally think to have a lb4lb it has to be based on stats and there are a few fighters with better recent recordsQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraOk. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?
canelo, golovkin, loma, pac, and probably a few more have better recent records than ward, more names
and you have to consider circumstance, for one all the fighters above are fighting away from home
ward beating kov in America with 3 American judges and an American ref was an impressive result no doubt, but was it even as impressive as Kov getting the rough end of a decision against ward in America with an American ref and 3 American judges?
Some valid points above, but going on your way of judging it , none of those names above have better names on their recent record than Ward does, not even Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44well it might be opinion that ward would beat anyone at any weight but I personally think to have a lb4lb it has to be based on stats and there are a few fighters with better recent recordsQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraOk. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?
canelo, golovkin, loma, pac, and probably a few more have better recent records than ward, more names
and you have to consider circumstance, for one all the fighters above are fighting away from home
ward beating kov in America with 3 American judges and an American ref was an impressive result no doubt, but was it even as impressive as Kov getting the rough end of a decision against ward in America with an American ref and 3 American judges?
Through no fault of their own, none of them have beaten any p4p rated guys, apart from debatably people 2 weights below them.
Loma is undisputably a great fighter and maybe depending how you're judging it is no.1, but going on who they've beat, you can't say that. After all, he's had single digit pro fights in total.
Canelo may not have "home advantage " but he's Constantly had everything else in his favour with his catch weights etc.
GGG is constantly criticised for not fighting anyone.
So like I say nobody has recently beaten anyone of the p4p status of Kov.
I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently
but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?
I don't think so
fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.
P4P rankings aka my top 10 favourite boxers at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnerafair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.
Early numbers suggest Kovalevs whole side will walk with about 1.2 million. After promotional expenses, paying Kathy, paying manager, paying trainers, paying the tax man Kovalev will probably have less than 100k. Absolutely disgusting what they did to him.
Think there's anyway he felt jobbed and pulled a Nicholas Walters move when the low blows and fight got tough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
Tim Witherspoon alleges he did the same thing against Bone Crusher Smith when he fought him a second time.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkThink there's anyway he felt jobbed and pulled a Nicholas Walters move when the low blows and fight got tough?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson