Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MIKAY
Lol, your living in a dream world if you think posters actually want to change your opinion.
1) First of all what make you think you are so important that people want to change your opinion, a little arragant if you ask me.
2) Your the one going on about "this is my opinion, its a free world etc" but as soon as somebody else expresses thier opinions you have a fit and claim they are bullying you to change yours. imoa
3) Like Daxx Khan said earlier, you are the one who starts of with "im not a racist but..." etc
4) " politics or race or religion or anything outside the ring, in fact it's ONLY about what happened in the ring " THEN WHY WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT JOE LOUIS BRINGING BLACK PEOPLE IN TO THE GAME OF GOLF ETC...
Sorry my spellings not up to your high standard, just seems like when someones loosing an argument they start nitpicking.
1. Did I say I was important? No....Do people argue with my opinion? Yes. Am I allowed to defend my position as the other posters are? Yes.
2. I only find fault in people arguing I don't rate Ali #1 for non-boxing reasons because it's not true...Louis and Marciano have tangible records and Ali was great but didn't have records to those levels.
3. I have to post that because some posters try to read what I'm not posting and judge from that. I'll admit, I don't think Ali was a perfect person (neither am I) and I don't agree with his politics HOWEVER that doesn't diminish his skill as a boxer and it doesn't affect the way I rate him as a boxer....same with Gerald McClellan he was an evil person in life but he was a very good boxer. Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano had personal flaws but it doesn't affect the way I see them as boxers.
4. Because people said "Ali transcends boxing" and started talking about what Ali did outside the ring and well I just wanted to point out that he wasn't the only one who did great things inside and outside the ring. Ali's celebrity status doesn't make him the greatest BOXER of all time...it doesn't hurt it but it doesn't do anything for his legacy as a BOXER either.
So I see Ali in this case as a BOXER and as a boxer I rate him 3rd....that is all
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
I Think We Should Just End It There, Cool Click To Ya
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Lyle as I have said no one is trying to change your opinion. It can be argued that Joe Louis was the greatest, many posters do not have a problem with that.
However Rocky because he had an unbeaten record and retired undefeated is definitely a flawed argument for being the greatest. Holes can and have been picked in that argument.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
For fuck's sake I didn't realize this was going on for 11 pages. I stopped on the third page with this one since I have no intention of reading 8 more pages of this
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Lyle it's simple, if you look at what they did in the ring and in the ring only, there is no comparision. I know it's the extracurricular stuff that sours you to Ali but if you look at what he did between the ropes from the moment the bell rang then it's pretty clear who had the greater career. I mean Ali probably tripled Marciano's number of quality opponents if not more then that and he has by far the greater caliber of wins. I'm not trying to attack but that's just pretty obvious to see.
Pretty much.
Marciano actually may be underrated by some but still I don't think I'd have him in my top three.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MIKAY
I Think We Should Just End It There, Cool Click To Ya
Without appologizing to me for calling me a racist?....that's just wonderful...as long as you're happy I guess that's all that matters.
Fellas Rocky Marciano did not lose and the only way you can say he's out of your top 3 is to say "Hypothetically I think Ali would have beaten him"....Rocky wasn't even a true heavyweight weighing in at 185 or so and that makes his ability to go undefeated at heavyweight, with 43 KO's is very impressive.
If you look out over the history of heavyweight boxing there have been times where the division has been weaker than usual and maybe you think Rocky's era was one of those eras but there was only ONE fighter who got to 49-0-0 and never lost and that's Rocky basically a blown up light heavyweight/cruiserweight. That is impressive.
1. Louis
2. Marciano
3. Ali
4. Foreman
5. Holmes
6. Frazier
7. Johnson
8. Dempsey
9. Charles
10. Walcott
11. Lewis
12. Holyfield
13. Tyson
14. Bowe
15. Patterson
16. Liston
17. Jeffries
18. Tunney
19. Schmelling
20. Johannsen
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kid blackie
i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1
30 full fights of Joe Louis ?? i didn't even think you could get half that amount of his full fights, where did you get his fights from ?? and you say Norton and Young werrn't great fighters like Ali so then in your opinion what does that say about Ali who struggled badly against both of them ?? don't get me wrong Ali is a great fighter but your comment there made no sense to me.
yes i got 31 full fights on joe louis from a guy in the states it may have come across like i dont rate ken norton or jimmy young but i do dont get me wrong norton would go all night once he got warmed up and he had just the right style to get to ali but he did fear big punches like earnie shavers,george foreman,gerry cooney etc, thats where the different is between him and ali norton didnt have a great chin as for jimmy young i just think he was a spoiler and could upset anyone with his garbage style tactics look what he did to george foreman
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kid blackie
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kid blackie
i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1
30 full fights of Joe Louis ?? i didn't even think you could get half that amount of his full fights, where did you get his fights from ?? and you say Norton and Young werrn't great fighters like Ali so then in your opinion what does that say about Ali who struggled badly against both of them ?? don't get me wrong Ali is a great fighter but your comment there made no sense to me.
yes i got 31 full fights on joe louis from a guy in the states it may have come across like i dont rate ken norton or jimmy young but i do dont get me wrong norton would go all night once he got warmed up and he had just the right style to get to ali but he did fear big punches like earnie shavers,george foreman,gerry cooney etc, thats where the different is between him and ali norton didnt have a great chin as for jimmy young i just think he was a spoiler and could upset anyone with his garbage style tactics look what he did to george foreman
Norton did trouble pure boxers he troubled Young, Holmes, Ali etc. Don't know what it was about Norton's style but his style seemed perfect for pure boxers. I didn't really like Young's style he reminded me of the 70's version of Chris Byrd, but he was better than Byrd but you see my point. Young did indeed box Foreman's ears off and he was also unfortunate in his decision losses to Shavers, Norton, Ali. Young was a bit of a hot/cold fighter. Thats why he had many more losses than he should have had really. I remember i asked Larry Holmes what he thought about Witherspoon, Norton, considering they have similar styles. And he told me he thought Witherspoon was the better boxer but Norton was stronger.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Id go with Larry's assesment, Spoon if he had ever hit like his size,he could have ruled the roost
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MIKAY
I Think We Should Just End It There, Cool Click To Ya
Without appologizing to me for calling me a racist?....that's just wonderful...as long as you're happy I guess that's all that matters.
Fellas Rocky Marciano did not lose and the only way you can say he's out of your top 3 is to say "Hypothetically I think Ali would have beaten him"....Rocky wasn't even a true heavyweight weighing in at 185 or so and that makes his ability to go undefeated at heavyweight, with 43 KO's is very impressive.
Rocky Marciano's record is not 100% certain.
He turned professional with an assumed name that was altered a number of times and went back to the amateurs on a few occassions.
He was beaten heavily in the amateurs on more than one occassion.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Id go with Larry's assesment, Spoon if he had ever hit like his size,he could have ruled the roost
Spoon had very good right hand and i loved the way he blocked Holmes jab with his right glove and then countered with a rising jab, he was unlucky against Holmes i scored the fight a draw.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Id go with Larry's assesment, Spoon if he had ever hit like his size,he could have ruled the roost
Spoon had very good right hand and i loved the way he blocked Holmes jab with his right glove and then countered with a rising jab, he was unlucky against Holmes i scored the fight a draw.
Spoon just had so much size, he should have hit like a wall, but he never seemed to have that lights out shot
He had everything else as well
He should have been huge
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Marciano, Joe Lewis and probably a prime larry holmes could all of beaten 70s ali!!
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Id go with Larry's assesment, Spoon if he had ever hit like his size,he could have ruled the roost
Spoon had very good right hand and i loved the way he blocked Holmes jab with his right glove and then countered with a rising jab, he was unlucky against Holmes i scored the fight a draw.
Spoon just had so much size, he should have hit like a wall, but he never seemed to have that lights out shot
He had everything else as well
He should have been huge
IMO he was the best Heavyweight of the 80's only behind Holmes, Tyson, of course. I think an in shape Witherspoon would of gave Tyson fits. I remember Scrap told me one day that Witherspoon didn't step into boxing gym until he was like 21 or 22, and then he was fighting Holmes for the title at 25 unbelievable stuff.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Marciano, Joe Lewis and probably a prime larry holmes could all of beaten 70s ali!!
No shot,Marciano was to short,Joe Louis lunged to much,and Holmes got his but whipped by the 70's Ali,he was his sparring partner
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Spoon had very good right hand and i loved the way he blocked Holmes jab with his right glove and then countered with a rising jab, he was unlucky against Holmes i scored the fight a draw.
Spoon just had so much size, he should have hit like a wall, but he never seemed to have that lights out shot
He had everything else as well
He should have been huge
IMO he was the best Heavyweight of the 80's only behind Holmes, Tyson, of course. I think an in shape Witherspoon would of gave Tyson fits. I remember Scrap told me one day that Witherspoon didn't step into boxing gym until he was like 21 or 22, and then he was fighting Holmes for the title at 25 unbelievable stuff.
Alot of it as well was him getting screwed by promoters,King reamed him bad
