Was Muhammad Ali really the best

[Kid blackie]

i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1

[CutMeMick]

i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1

Nice, post Welcome to Saddos and hope you enjoy your stay here with us.

[The Fightfan]

Ok I've had a few and now some thoguht's of Ali are surfacing.Personally to start off I don't like I believe he is a racist and was more rewarded for what he did inside the ring because of his stance with the Vietnam war.When he beat Sonny Liston there was always contraversy.Look at those fight's especially the second no I am not saying anything about a phantom punch but when that punch connected his foot was up in the air,honestly when your feet are not planted you have no power common knowledge.So how would a man who could take on as many as five cops with billy clubs cracking him in the head go down from such a punch it was insane.Then as you see him rolling on the canvas he looks up at referee Jersey Joe counting over him to see what the count is he then rolls onto his stomach and then gets up.His hands are down thinking to himself the fight is over but when Jersey Joe walks away Ali jumps at him and hands go right up as if he had not a foggy moment when he was down. Anyway there was always something around Ali's fight's that he was allowed to get away with the Bonavena punching consistently behind the head,the grabbing and pushing down behind the head of Joe Frasier, the infamous tear in the glove when he fought Henry Cooper and took him 13 minutes to get a new glove becuase he was simply out on his feet (in which the same type of thing happened to Ken Buchanan in the Roberto Duran fight he wanted extra time for a low blow but they said no you can't continue),the knockdown from shavers which was called a no knockdown and many more if you want me to name them.In my opinion there has never been so much contraversy in the ring with a fighter than Ali and referee's seemed to be starstruck and would forget the rules when he fought. When it all comes down to it I would put him into the top ten.I mean let's be honest do you think he would be able to lye on the ropes and play patty cake with Lennox Lewis a 6'5" 245lb fighter who destroy's people with one right hand.Sure we laugh at Lennox and talk about his chin but have you seen any heavyweight champion get hit with any of the right hands that Lennox got knocked out with. So my answer is no about Ali he was great fighter but certainly not the greatest.

[Trainer Monkey]

Ok I've had a few and now some thoguht's of Ali are surfacing.Personally to start off I don't like I believe he is a racist and was more rewarded for what he did inside the ring because of his stance with the Vietnam war.When he beat Sonny Liston there was always contraversy.Look at those fight's especially the second no I am not saying anything about a phantom punch but when that punch connected his foot was up in the air,honestly when your feet are not planted you have no power common knowledge.So how would a man who could take on as many as five cops with billy clubs cracking him in the head go down from such a punch it was insane.Then as you see him rolling on the canvas he looks up at referee Jersey Joe counting over him to see what the count is he then rolls onto his stomach and then gets up.His hands are down thinking to himself the fight is over but when Jersey Joe walks away Ali jumps at him and hands go right up as if he had not a foggy moment when he was down. Anyway there was always something around Ali's fight's that he was allowed to get away with the Bonavena punching consistently behind the head,the grabbing and pushing down behind the head of Joe Frasier, the infamous tear in the glove when he fought Henry Cooper and took him 13 minutes to get a new glove becuase he was simply out on his feet (in which the same type of thing happened to Ken Buchanan in the Roberto Duran fight he wanted extra time for a low blow but they said no you can't continue),the knockdown from shavers which was called a no knockdown and many more if you want me to name them.In my opinion there has never been so much contraversy in the ring with a fighter than Ali and referee's seemed to be starstruck and would forget the rules when he fought. When it all comes down to it I would put him into the top ten.I mean let's be honest do you think he would be able to lye on the ropes and play patty cake with Lennox Lewis a 6'5" 245lb fighter who destroy's people with one right hand.Sure we laugh at Lennox and talk about his chin but have you seen any heavyweight champion get hit with any of the right hands that Lennox got knocked out with. So my answer is no about Ali he was great fighter but certainly not the greatest.

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

[ICB]

Ok I've had a few and now some thoguht's of Ali are surfacing.Personally to start off I don't like I believe he is a racist and was more rewarded for what he did inside the ring because of his stance with the Vietnam war.When he beat Sonny Liston there was always contraversy.Look at those fight's especially the second no I am not saying anything about a phantom punch but when that punch connected his foot was up in the air,honestly when your feet are not planted you have no power common knowledge.So how would a man who could take on as many as five cops with billy clubs cracking him in the head go down from such a punch it was insane.Then as you see him rolling on the canvas he looks up at referee Jersey Joe counting over him to see what the count is he then rolls onto his stomach and then gets up.His hands are down thinking to himself the fight is over but when Jersey Joe walks away Ali jumps at him and hands go right up as if he had not a foggy moment when he was down. Anyway there was always something around Ali's fight's that he was allowed to get away with the Bonavena punching consistently behind the head,the grabbing and pushing down behind the head of Joe Frasier, the infamous tear in the glove when he fought Henry Cooper and took him 13 minutes to get a new glove becuase he was simply out on his feet (in which the same type of thing happened to Ken Buchanan in the Roberto Duran fight he wanted extra time for a low blow but they said no you can't continue),the knockdown from shavers which was called a no knockdown and many more if you want me to name them.In my opinion there has never been so much contraversy in the ring with a fighter than Ali and referee's seemed to be starstruck and would forget the rules when he fought. When it all comes down to it I would put him into the top ten.I mean let's be honest do you think he would be able to lye on the ropes and play patty cake with Lennox Lewis a 6'5" 245lb fighter who destroy's people with one right hand.Sure we laugh at Lennox and talk about his chin but have you seen any heavyweight champion get hit with any of the right hands that Lennox got knocked out with. So my answer is no about Ali he was great fighter but certainly not the greatest.

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

Oh come off it they done a programme about Liston vs Ali 2, and they had this computer programming gear or whatever it was, that showed you where the exact punch landed, and it was nothing more than a grazing shot on the cheek. I totally understand about flash knockdowns but we aren't talk about flush punches on the chin, temple, nose, etc. We are talking about a grazing arm punch on the cheek.

[Trainer Monkey]

Ok I've had a few and now some thoguht's of Ali are surfacing.Personally to start off I don't like I believe he is a racist and was more rewarded for what he did inside the ring because of his stance with the Vietnam war.When he beat Sonny Liston there was always contraversy.Look at those fight's especially the second no I am not saying anything about a phantom punch but when that punch connected his foot was up in the air,honestly when your feet are not planted you have no power common knowledge.So how would a man who could take on as many as five cops with billy clubs cracking him in the head go down from such a punch it was insane.Then as you see him rolling on the canvas he looks up at referee Jersey Joe counting over him to see what the count is he then rolls onto his stomach and then gets up.His hands are down thinking to himself the fight is over but when Jersey Joe walks away Ali jumps at him and hands go right up as if he had not a foggy moment when he was down. Anyway there was always something around Ali's fight's that he was allowed to get away with the Bonavena punching consistently behind the head,the grabbing and pushing down behind the head of Joe Frasier, the infamous tear in the glove when he fought Henry Cooper and took him 13 minutes to get a new glove becuase he was simply out on his feet (in which the same type of thing happened to Ken Buchanan in the Roberto Duran fight he wanted extra time for a low blow but they said no you can't continue),the knockdown from shavers which was called a no knockdown and many more if you want me to name them.In my opinion there has never been so much contraversy in the ring with a fighter than Ali and referee's seemed to be starstruck and would forget the rules when he fought. When it all comes down to it I would put him into the top ten.I mean let's be honest do you think he would be able to lye on the ropes and play patty cake with Lennox Lewis a 6'5" 245lb fighter who destroy's people with one right hand.Sure we laugh at Lennox and talk about his chin but have you seen any heavyweight champion get hit with any of the right hands that Lennox got knocked out with. So my answer is no about Ali he was great fighter but certainly not the greatest.

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

Oh come off it they done a programme about Liston vs Ali 2, and they had this computer programming gear or whatever it was, that showed you where the exact punch landed, and it was nothing more than a grazing shot on the cheek. I totally understand about flash knockdowns but we aren't talk about flush punches on the chin, temple, nose, etc. We are talking about a grazing arm punch on the cheek.

Oh come of it yourself
A) Ali himself didnt think it was a clean knockdown,he stood over him screaming "Get up and fight"
B) That part of your jaw is one of the easiest knockdown point,way easier then your temple or your nose,theres a nerve that runs there that if it gets tweeked,you go down

[Trainer Monkey]

What I think happened,Liston got caught with a flash knockdown,and by that point was afraid of Ali,and decided the canvas felt comfortable in the second fight
He had a pathological fear of insane people (ironic I know) and he was convinced Ali was crazy by that point

[donnydarkoIRL]

And how about Joe Louis' 69 (55 KO)-3

I'm a Louis fan, but Louis got KTFO.

[DaxxKahn]

Ok I've had a few and now some thoguht's of Ali are surfacing.Personally to start off I don't like I believe he is a racist and was more rewarded for what he did inside the ring because of his stance with the Vietnam war.When he beat Sonny Liston there was always contraversy.Look at those fight's especially the second no I am not saying anything about a phantom punch but when that punch connected his foot was up in the air,honestly when your feet are not planted you have no power common knowledge.So how would a man who could take on as many as five cops with billy clubs cracking him in the head go down from such a punch it was insane.Then as you see him rolling on the canvas he looks up at referee Jersey Joe counting over him to see what the count is he then rolls onto his stomach and then gets up.His hands are down thinking to himself the fight is over but when Jersey Joe walks away Ali jumps at him and hands go right up as if he had not a foggy moment when he was down. Anyway there was always something around Ali's fight's that he was allowed to get away with the Bonavena punching consistently behind the head,the grabbing and pushing down behind the head of Joe Frasier, the infamous tear in the glove when he fought Henry Cooper and took him 13 minutes to get a new glove becuase he was simply out on his feet (in which the same type of thing happened to Ken Buchanan in the Roberto Duran fight he wanted extra time for a low blow but they said no you can't continue),the knockdown from shavers which was called a no knockdown and many more if you want me to name them.In my opinion there has never been so much contraversy in the ring with a fighter than Ali and referee's seemed to be starstruck and would forget the rules when he fought. When it all comes down to it I would put him into the top ten.I mean let's be honest do you think he would be able to lye on the ropes and play patty cake with Lennox Lewis a 6'5" 245lb fighter who destroy's people with one right hand.Sure we laugh at Lennox and talk about his chin but have you seen any heavyweight champion get hit with any of the right hands that Lennox got knocked out with. So my answer is no about Ali he was great fighter but certainly not the greatest.

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

Oh come off it they done a programme about Liston vs Ali 2, and they had this computer programming gear or whatever it was, that showed you where the exact punch landed, and it was nothing more than a grazing shot on the cheek. I totally understand about flash knockdowns but we aren't talk about flush punches on the chin, temple, nose, etc. We are talking about a grazing arm punch on the cheek.

I have seen the video at least 100 times and in slow motion it was more then a grazing shot...There is a highlight video on youtube that shows it perfectly....I will look for it later and post it...I have to remember which highlight vid it was....There are about 50 of them

[El Kabong]

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

Ali was 6'3-6'4 and 220-225


...I hear he also walked on water because a white man told him he couldn't and then he jumped over the Empire State Building and during the Global Cooling scare of the 1960's Ali warmed our hearts by cheering up a kid with cancer.



Sorry I'm a little put out with this "Ali is the greatest" mainly because #1 I don't share that view and #2 I am berated for not sharing that view #3 other boxers did good stuff even GREAT stuff, Joe Louis got black people playing golf on the PGA tour and got Jackie Robinson out of being court martialed so if not for Joe Louis then maybe no Jackie Robinson and no Tiger Woods.

[match]

Ever been hit by a flash knockdown?
By the way Ali was 6'1/6'2 205 to 230
A real light weight right?

Ali was 6'3-6'4 and 220-225


...I hear he also walked on water because a white man told him he couldn't and then he jumped over the Empire State Building and during the Global Cooling scare of the 1960's Ali warmed our hearts by cheering up a kid with cancer.



Sorry I'm a little put out with this "Ali is the greatest" mainly because #1 I don't share that view and #2 I am berated for not sharing that view #3 other boxers did good stuff even GREAT stuff, Joe Louis got black people playing golf on the PGA tour and got Jackie Robinson out of being court martialed so if not for Joe Louis then maybe no Jackie Robinson and no Tiger Woods.

Joe Louis was in no way any kind of precursor for Jackie Robinson, please stop with that nonsense.

[El Kabong]

He got Jackie and other African-Americans into OCS ....oh but that's nonsense....and I guess I should stop it....sorry for trying to appreciate a National Hero.

[ICB]

i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1

30 full fights of Joe Louis ?? i didn't even think you could get half that amount of his full fights, where did you get his fights from ?? and you say Norton and Young werrn't great fighters like Ali so then in your opinion what does that say about Ali who struggled badly against both of them ?? don't get me wrong Ali is a great fighter but your comment there made no sense to me.

[Kid blackie]

i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1

30 full fights of Joe Louis ?? i didn't even think you could get half that amount of his full fights, where did you get his fights from ?? and you say Norton and Young werrn't great fighters like Ali so then in your opinion what does that say about Ali who struggled badly against both of them ?? don't get me wrong Ali is a great fighter but your comment there made no sense to me.

yes i got 31 full fights on joe louis from a guy in the states it may have come across like i dont rate ken norton or jimmy young but i do dont get me wrong norton would go all night once he got warmed up and he had just the right style to get to ali but he did fear big punches like earnie shavers,george foreman,gerry cooney etc, thats where the different is between him and ali norton didnt have a great chin as for jimmy young i just think he was a spoiler and could upset anyone with his garbage style tactics look what he did to george foreman

[ICB]

i think muhammad ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time i have nearly got everyone of his fights,
so i have seen a fair amount to judge him, i just
think he had it all, his great hand speed and footwork in his early days
was unreal and his ablity to obsorb punches i think he was one of the toughest fighters as well to get up from that left hook against joe frazier
so quick you got to give him credit for that
i also think he would of beaten joe louis,rocky marciano,jack dempsey
dont get me wrong they where great fighters aswell but not like ali,
ali would find away to beat them guys i have over 30 full fights on
joe louse so i have seen alot on him to
and i have seen dempsey and marciano fights also i do think tho
that ali was luck to get the decision over jimmy young and the 3rd fight against ken norton but you know them guys where not great like ali i think
the only other heavyweight that comes close is larry holmes what a jab that guy had and he could hit harder than ali but ali would still be my number 1

30 full fights of Joe Louis ?? i didn't even think you could get half that amount of his full fights, where did you get his fights from ?? and you say Norton and Young werrn't great fighters like Ali so then in your opinion what does that say about Ali who struggled badly against both of them ?? don't get me wrong Ali is a great fighter but your comment there made no sense to me.

yes i got 31 full fights on joe louis from a guy in the states it may have come across like i dont rate ken norton or jimmy young but i do dont get me wrong norton would go all night once he got warmed up and he had just the right style to get to ali but he did fear big punches like earnie shavers,george foreman,gerry cooney etc, thats where the different is between him and ali norton didnt have a great chin as for jimmy young i just think he was a spoiler and could upset anyone with his garbage style tactics look what he did to george foreman

Norton did trouble pure boxers he troubled Young, Holmes, Ali etc. Don't know what it was about Norton's style but his style seemed perfect for pure boxers. I didn't really like Young's style he reminded me of the 70's version of Chris Byrd, but he was better than Byrd but you see my point. Young did indeed box Foreman's ears off and he was also unfortunate in his decision losses to Shavers, Norton, Ali. Young was a bit of a hot/cold fighter. Thats why he had many more losses than he should have had really. I remember i asked Larry Holmes what he thought about Witherspoon, Norton, considering they have similar styles. And he told me he thought Witherspoon was the better boxer but Norton was stronger.