Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Marciano, Joe Lewis and probably a prime larry holmes could all of beaten 70s ali!!
No shot,Marciano was to short,Joe Louis lunged to much,and Holmes got his but whipped by the 70's Ali,he was his sparring partner
And Holmes also whipped Ali when they sparred in Rumble In The Jungle, when Holmes sparred Ali in the early 70's, Holmes was still an amateur boxer i believe or a mere novice professional fighter, even you have to admit the Holmes that done a paint job on Shavers in there 1st fight, would of gave a prime Ali hell. And even Ali got lazy sometimes and allowed his opponent's to get on the inside, and Louis's devastating hooks on the inside would of caused Ali some problems.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Marciano, Joe Lewis and probably a prime larry holmes could all of beaten 70s ali!!
No shot,Marciano was to short,Joe Louis lunged to much,and Holmes got his but whipped by the 70's Ali,he was his sparring partner
And Holmes also whipped Ali when they sparred in Rumble In The Jungle, when Holmes sparred Ali in the early 70's, Holmes was still an amateur boxer i believe or a mere novice professional fighter, even you have to admit the Holmes that done a paint job on Shavers in there 1st fight, would of gave a prime Ali hell. And even Ali got lazy sometimes and allowed his opponent's to get on the inside, and Louis's devastating hooks on the inside would of caused Ali some problems.
Holmes was pro when they sparred for the Rumble.
Holmes gave Ali difficulty, never did he whip him.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Marciano, Joe Lewis and probably a prime larry holmes could all of beaten 70s ali!!
No shot,Marciano was to short,Joe Louis lunged to much,and Holmes got his but whipped by the 70's Ali,he was his sparring partner
And Holmes also whipped Ali when they sparred in Rumble In The Jungle, when Holmes sparred Ali in the early 70's, Holmes was still an amateur boxer i believe or a mere novice professional fighter, even you have to admit the Holmes that done a paint job on Shavers in there 1st fight, would of gave a prime Ali hell. And even Ali got lazy sometimes and allowed his opponent's to get on the inside, and Louis's devastating hooks on the inside would of caused Ali some problems.
Ali blocked to the body really well,nullifying Louis's hooks on the inside,and Ali nuked Holmes before the rumble,the only times Holmes got a real shiner was Ali.
Thats why Ali took the Holmes fight,his ego said he could win,his age on the other hand.........
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
No shot,Marciano was to short,Joe Louis lunged to much,and Holmes got his but whipped by the 70's Ali,he was his sparring partner
And Holmes also whipped Ali when they sparred in Rumble In The Jungle, when Holmes sparred Ali in the early 70's, Holmes was still an amateur boxer i believe or a mere novice professional fighter, even you have to admit the Holmes that done a paint job on Shavers in there 1st fight, would of gave a prime Ali hell. And even Ali got lazy sometimes and allowed his opponent's to get on the inside, and Louis's devastating hooks on the inside would of caused Ali some problems.
Ali blocked to the body really well,nullifying Louis's hooks on the inside,and Ali nuked Holmes before the rumble,the only times Holmes got a real shiner was Ali.
Thats why Ali took the Holmes fight,his ego said he could win,his age on the other hand.........
But so what if he gave Holmes a shiner when Holmes was inexperienced what does that prove ?? also Holmes got the better of Ali in sparring shortly before Rumble In The Jungle but again what does it prove ?? sparring means nothing. Greg Page floored Mike Tyson in sparring do you think if they would of met in the pros that Page would of have even troubled Mike Tyson ?? and even Lennox Lewis was staggered badly by a Cruiserweight in sparring. Holmes was nowhere even close to his peak when he sparred Ali in the early 70's this was round about the time Larry Holmes got floored by Duane Bobick in the Olympic trials so that just shows you what level Holmes was at that time, do you honestly believe Duane Bobick would have troubled Larry Holmes in the pro's ??
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Rocky Marciano's record is not 100% certain.
He turned professional with an assumed name that was altered a number of times and went back to the amateurs on a few occassions.
He was beaten heavily in the amateurs on more than one occassion.
So amateur records count now???
Give me a fucking break dude
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
When Holmes has said that Ali was better,Im inclined to believe him
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
When Holmes has said that Ali was better,Im inclined to believe him
He said that out of respect, Tyson also said he wouldn't have stood a chance against Holmes in his prime. Do you honestly think he thinks that way really ?? its just out of respect do you know how many boxers have said that in the past ??
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
When Holmes has said that Ali was better,Im inclined to believe him
He said that out of respect, Tyson also said he wouldn't have stood a chance against Holmes in his prime. Do you honestly think he thinks that way really ?? its just out of respect do you know how many boxers have said that in the past ??
He should have meant it,because prime Holmes would have torched Tyson,that jab would have drilled him all the live long day
Prime Ali was better then Holmes,Im a huge Larry fan,my in-laws live 15 minutes from the town his money resurected for gods sake,but Ali was better
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
When Holmes has said that Ali was better,Im inclined to believe him
He said that out of respect, Tyson also said he wouldn't have stood a chance against Holmes in his prime. Do you honestly think he thinks that way really ?? its just out of respect do you know how many boxers have said that in the past ??
He should have meant it,because prime Holmes would have torched Tyson,that jab would have drilled him all the live long day
Prime Ali was better then Holmes,Im a huge Larry fan,my in-laws live 15 minutes from the town his money resurected for gods sake,but Ali was better
Well i believe prime Holmes would of beat prime Tyson but that wasn't my point. My point was a lot of boxers say that out of respect when deep down they don't really believe it. Holmes is one of my favorite fighters but he is very confident fighter, so i doubt deep down he truly believes he couldn't of beat Ali, when Ali struggled with lesser fighters than Larry Holmes, Ali never dealt with someone like Holmes and vice a versa.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Simply put,Holmes footwork was slightly plodding,Ali would have never been there,but the counter punch would have been.
Everything is compaired to Ali for a reason, he was Ali
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Simply put,Holmes footwork was slightly plodding,Ali would have never been there,but the counter punch would have been.
Everything is compaired to Ali for a reason, he was Ali
But all the fighters that gave Ali trouble none of them had good footwork. And Holmes wasn't no slouch in the footwork department, he could dance around the ring very well when he chose to, he just didn't need to because that piston left jab keep his opponents away from him and also made them cautious with there offense.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Simply put,Holmes footwork was slightly plodding,Ali would have never been there,but the counter punch would have been.
Everything is compaired to Ali for a reason, he was Ali
But all the fighters that gave Ali trouble none of them had good footwork. And Holmes wasn't no slouch in the footwork department, he could dance around the ring very well when he chose to, he just didn't need to because that piston left jab keep his opponents away from him and also made them cautious with there offense.
Most he screwed around with,the guy who who gave the biggest issues was Frazier,and thats because of all the head movement,he was hard to trace on, and Ali allways wanted to land one solid one early to let you know he could hurt you,so youd fight scared for the rest of the fight. I have to give Joe credit, Ali did drill him, and he just kept weaving in like a little tank.
Unfortunatly that style caught up with Joe
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Holmes struggled with the speed of Witherspoon and Carl Williams.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Holmes struggled with the speed of Witherspoon and Carl Williams.
He was past his peak by then and it wasn't nothing to do with Witherspoon's speed. It was down to styles, Witherspoon had similar style to Ken Norton. He blocked Holmes left jab with his right glove in that crab like defense and countered with rising jabs it was nothing to do with speed it was down to styles. And as for Carl Williams he troubled Holmes with his footwork Holmes didn't have the speed anymore being 35 years old.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trainer Monkey
Simply put,Holmes footwork was slightly plodding,Ali would have never been there,but the counter punch would have been.
Everything is compaired to Ali for a reason, he was Ali
But all the fighters that gave Ali trouble none of them had good footwork. And Holmes wasn't no slouch in the footwork department, he could dance around the ring very well when he chose to, he just didn't need to because that piston left jab keep his opponents away from him and also made them cautious with there offense.
Most he screwed around with,the guy who who gave the biggest issues was Frazier,and thats because of all the head movement,he was hard to trace on, and Ali allways wanted to land one solid one early to let you know he could hurt you,so youd fight scared for the rest of the fight. I have to give Joe credit, Ali did drill him, and he just kept weaving in like a little tank.
Unfortunatly that style caught up with Joe
Frazier used to get underneath Ali's straight shots his jab, straight right hand etc, but with Foreman's wild uppercuts and hooks that bob and weave style was useless. Boxing is funny sometimes its like Rock, Paper, Scissors.
