The Brexit Thread

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Even if they agree a deal it isn't a deal, it's just a standstill agreement. The "deal" means Britain stays inside the customs union for a couple of years while the terms and conditions of the actual deal are worked out. Just wait and see the shit Britain has to swallow to maintain access to the destination of hundreds of billions of its goods and the source of hundreds of billions more, not to mention all the jobs. It will become clear to even the most ardent Brexit supporter than the resulting deal will never be anywhere near as good for the UK as being part of the EU was. They're going to get extremely pissed off at somebody. It won't be themselves naturally.

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Yes oh how you'll miss being under Germany's boot .....really would have been easier to just give up during the Blitz

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How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5026&stc=1

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

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Brexit: Deal essentially impossible, No 10 source says after PM-Merkel call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49970267


What boot?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

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Brexit: Deal essentially impossible, No 10 source says after PM-Merkel call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49970267


What boot?

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That is old news. They did secure a deal which was voted down in parliament on Saturday. There is no boot here.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

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Brexit: Deal essentially impossible, No 10 source says after PM-Merkel call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49970267


What boot?

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That is old news. They did secure a deal which was voted down in parliament on Saturday. There is no boot here.

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Why does Merkel have a say at all?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

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Brexit: Deal essentially impossible, No 10 source says after PM-Merkel call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49970267


What boot?

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That is old news. They did secure a deal which was voted down in parliament on Saturday. There is no boot here.

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Why does Merkel have a say at all?

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Boris went around all of Europe's leaders even though there are negotiators that they must go through. There are 27 countries that need to agree.

Bump.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I invite you (Beanz) to take a page out of the heated arguments I have with Lyle over Trump and the gun issue. I'm not going to claim any type of moral superiority here, because Lyle and I went at it pretty hard some years ago, and many times it even got a bit personal. We've all done it.... no sense in denying it. Yet, whether you've noticed or not, Lyle and continue to argue heatedly about Trump and the gun issue..... but the personal attacks are now missing. Why? Because we respect each other as men. We may disagree in the most intense sense of the word on some important issues (climate can probably be included in there also, although I'm not exactly an alarmist at this point)..... but we disagree civilly.

Please don't take this as an attack. I believe we are all here intelligent, articulate people and frankly.... it's the reason why in 15 years I've never ventured too far off this forum. I've tried others..... got bored..... and come back. I don't even bother to test the waters anymore. The 15 years brings up another point. It's not healthy (IMO) to carry negative feelings toward one another through 15 or so years in the same forum. We should rather embrace our differences. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit trying to convince Lyle of the error of his ways when it comes to Trump. But at least there is a mutual respect, and that means more to me than any disagreement we may have.

Sometimes we touch a "sensitive button." I'm convinced it was that way with the LGBTQ issue. We don't know what each others' life experiences have been..... we know nothing about each others' families, situations, health, problems, etc. So disagreements on that subject are bound to create a lot of tension. But even topics like those I'm sure we can discuss in a calm, civil manner.

I find it sad that you would call Lyle "not good people" without ever having met him personally. I'm not a betting man. But I'd be willing to wager that much of this animosity would dissipate if there was ever a face-to-face. And I mean that in a good way. In both my personal life and at work, I've had many the opportunity to engage with people I just don't see eye-to-eye with. We don't always end up liking each other, but at least we extend each other the courtesy of being able to disagree without it devolving into a personal battle.

I'm the one here who has posted threads about an imagined "meeting" between Saddo'ers and..... although I realize that is just an unrealistic fantasy due to life circumstances..... I still feel it would be a terrific experience, especially for most of us Saddo veterans. Anyway, I sincerely hope you can reflect on some of these things.

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I'm bumping this up because it was a serious post thoughtfully addressed to a male adult, fellow Saddo'er of many years..... and I would kindly appreciate even the slightest acknowledgement that it was read.

Even if it's only to say that you don't give a shit, and would rather continue the current hostilities. That would be respected, and at least we would all know where we all stand.

Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by Master

Boris went around all of Europe's leaders even though there are negotiators that they must go through. There are 27 countries that need to agree.

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27 other countries need to agree to ALLOW Britain to implement the will of their people.


Yes indeed, no boot at all

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Bump.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I invite you (Beanz) to take a page out of the heated arguments I have with Lyle over Trump and the gun issue. I'm not going to claim any type of moral superiority here, because Lyle and I went at it pretty hard some years ago, and many times it even got a bit personal. We've all done it.... no sense in denying it. Yet, whether you've noticed or not, Lyle and continue to argue heatedly about Trump and the gun issue..... but the personal attacks are now missing. Why? Because we respect each other as men. We may disagree in the most intense sense of the word on some important issues (climate can probably be included in there also, although I'm not exactly an alarmist at this point)..... but we disagree civilly.

Please don't take this as an attack. I believe we are all here intelligent, articulate people and frankly.... it's the reason why in 15 years I've never ventured too far off this forum. I've tried others..... got bored..... and come back. I don't even bother to test the waters anymore. The 15 years brings up another point. It's not healthy (IMO) to carry negative feelings toward one another through 15 or so years in the same forum. We should rather embrace our differences. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit trying to convince Lyle of the error of his ways when it comes to Trump. But at least there is a mutual respect, and that means more to me than any disagreement we may have.

Sometimes we touch a "sensitive button." I'm convinced it was that way with the LGBTQ issue. We don't know what each others' life experiences have been..... we know nothing about each others' families, situations, health, problems, etc. So disagreements on that subject are bound to create a lot of tension. But even topics like those I'm sure we can discuss in a calm, civil manner.

I find it sad that you would call Lyle "not good people" without ever having met him personally. I'm not a betting man. But I'd be willing to wager that much of this animosity would dissipate if there was ever a face-to-face. And I mean that in a good way. In both my personal life and at work, I've had many the opportunity to engage with people I just don't see eye-to-eye with. We don't always end up liking each other, but at least we extend each other the courtesy of being able to disagree without it devolving into a personal battle.

I'm the one here who has posted threads about an imagined "meeting" between Saddo'ers and..... although I realize that is just an unrealistic fantasy due to life circumstances..... I still feel it would be a terrific experience, especially for most of us Saddo veterans. Anyway, I sincerely hope you can reflect on some of these things.

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I'm bumping this up because it was a serious post thoughtfully addressed to a male adult, fellow Saddo'er of many years..... and I would kindly appreciate even the slightest acknowledgement that it was read.

Even if it's only to say that you don't give a shit, and would rather continue the current hostilities. That would be respected, and at least we would all know where we all stand.

Thanks in advance.

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A male adult? Lol

You guys.

Yes I read it and no I don't think El Kabong is intelligent, articulate or respectful in any way. He wants the right of no reply. He asks a question and when you answer it just bounces off him because he will always think he knows better than the person he is lecturing. Look at him here, still, years on, telling the Brits not only what to do, but also what reality is because he thinks watching one YouTube video trumps 40 odd years of someone living in the places being discussed.

He is an arse and simply disagreeing with him provokes a very childish response.

Also no disrespect or anything Tittyfan but advice on civil behaviour from a guy who went to the trouble of Googling a local road bridge, and popular suicide spot, and suggested not only that I throw myself off it, but also asked that I film or photograph the final act, doesn't deserve to be read anyway.

You guys have got away with way too much for way too long. No more big padded gloves from me I am afraid.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Boris went around all of Europe's leaders even though there are negotiators that they must go through. There are 27 countries that need to agree.

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27 other countries need to agree to ALLOW Britain to implement the will of their people.


Yes indeed, no boot at all

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No, 27 countries need to agree a sensible deal with the UK so that it does not leave in a disorderly fashion.

Boris wants to rush it having no regard to the impact it will have on the country for many years to come.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Boris went around all of Europe's leaders even though there are negotiators that they must go through. There are 27 countries that need to agree.

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27 other countries need to agree to ALLOW Britain to implement the will of their people.


Yes indeed, no boot at all

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No, 27 countries need to agree a sensible deal with the UK so that it does not leave in a disorderly fashion.

Boris wants to rush it having no regard to the impact it will have on the country for many years to come.

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The Tories have messed up by basically souping up May's deal. Very weak, but no deal would never pass Parliament. So now both parties are seemingly essentially against the will of the people. If there was FPTP I think Britain would be on the verge of a political revolution.

No deal is the only way for a fresh start and it is being denied. Britain looks to be in a lot of trouble and then the Tories outright banning protests? Not a good look either. The people voted a very long time ago and the referendum has been trashed. That is treason. A nation has the right to its own sovereignty.

Ever...no deal would ever pass the 5th Column Parliament.

There is a FPTP (First Past the Post) system in the UK did you mean if there was not then there would be a political revolution?

Nobody voted for a no deal, the referendum was about being in or out and if it was out then people said a deal could be made.

Referendums are a bad idea as we vote for politicians to make the decisions. They only gave us a referendum because it was destroying the Conservatives.

My naughty......Proportional Representation. I had FPTP on the brain in that moment as I don't like that system.

I don't think the referendum question had anything in its wording about 'a deal'. It was about staying or leaving something the people never voted to be part of and that was it.

I love referendums and would like more of them. MP's have shown they don't give a hoot what the voters think so they are no longer representatives of the people.

I think it is totally valid to have referendums on important topics and certainly on things like national sovereignty.

Yes, with no FPTP you would see the collapse of the 2 monopoly parties very quickly in todays climate. You make the people mad and they become unpredictable. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Yes, with no FPTP you would see the collapse of the 2 monopoly parties very quickly in todays climate. You make the people mad and they become unpredictable. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

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The First Past The Post system is the best system as you get a stable and secure government any PR system leads to weak and smaller/extreme parties holding too much power.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Yes, with no FPTP you would see the collapse of the 2 monopoly parties very quickly in todays climate. You make the people mad and they become unpredictable. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

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The First Past The Post system is the best system as you get a stable and secure government any PR system leads to weak and smaller/extreme parties holding too much power.

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But they would resist this more ably by coalition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4DKKOlsJeE

The last coalition government was a disaster and the Lib Dem took the blame and got roasted at the general election.

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Originally Posted by Master

The last coalition government was a disaster and the Lib Dem took the blame and got roasted at the general election.

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The same could happen with PR. You do fine and you stay. You screw up and you are out. FPTP automatically discounts many votes in somewhat 'safe' seats. You end up with a crazy situation where UKIP had millions of votes but little representation. It is unfair and every vote should matter.

2015

Tories 11 million
Labour 9 million
UKIP nearly 4 million

Yet....

Tories 306 seats
Labour 258 seats
UKIP 1 seat

People happy with that don't have much respect for democracy IMO.

UKIP is if was a Brit, my choice.!

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Originally Posted by Fatboxingfan

UKIP is if was a Brit, my choice.!

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Why not the Brexit party?

Awful British Politicians and their Dr Who counterparts from Sarah Dempsters Twitter ;D

https://twitter.com/Dempster2000/sta...57065762856961


https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5027&stc=1

https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5028&stc=1

https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5029&stc=1


https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5031&stc=1

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Awful British Politicians and their Dr Who counterparts from Sarah Dempsters Twitter ;D

https://twitter.com/Dempster2000/sta...57065762856961


https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5027&stc=1

https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5028&stc=1

https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5029&stc=1


https://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfo...tid=5031&stc=1

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Why do I even bother posting when this kind of gold is being posted? Wow, surely being compared to Dr. Who characters will end the political support of these absolute despots....they won't be able to show their faces in public again, unless it's at some sort of comic con and there are Dr Who fans there to appreciate the villains showing up.


Dude, classic post

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Also no disrespect or anything Tittyfan but advice on civil behaviour from a guy who went to the trouble of Googling a local road bridge, and popular suicide spot, and suggested not only that I throw myself off it, but also asked that I film or photograph the final act, doesn't deserve to be read anyway.

You guys have got away with way too much for way too long. No more big padded gloves from me I am afraid.

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Yes, because you were using those "big padded gloves" before, right? I'm afraid you have me confused with someone who actually falls for your double standards, exaggerations, and blatant lies.

Oh and by the way, since you'll be using that "bridge thing" for the next 20 years.........

Are you an impressionable, gullible, on-the-edge, suicidal teenage kid who all he needs is a slight nudge to take the leap? No, right? You're a mature grandfather (albeit a very combative one), with what you describe as a fulfilling life and job.
So why the theatrics? Really bro..... between you and me. Don't make this about you against any fucking "gang." Man up and see individuals for what they are.

Had you been someone prone to suicidal thoughts and proven so on the forum, rest assured you wouldn't have gotten that post from me.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Also no disrespect or anything Tittyfan but advice on civil behaviour from a guy who went to the trouble of Googling a local road bridge, and popular suicide spot, and suggested not only that I throw myself off it, but also asked that I film or photograph the final act, doesn't deserve to be read anyway.

You guys have got away with way too much for way too long. No more big padded gloves from me I am afraid.

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Yes, because you were using those "big padded gloves" before, right? I'm afraid you have me confused with someone who actually falls for your double standards, exaggerations, and blatant lies.

Oh and by the way, since you'll be using that "bridge thing" for the next 20 years.........

Are you an impressionable, gullible, on-the-edge, suicidal teenage kid who all he needs is a slight nudge to take the leap? No, right? You're a mature grandfather (albeit a very combative one), with what you describe as a fulfilling life and job.
So why the theatrics? Really bro..... between you and me. Don't make this about you against any fucking "gang." Man up and see individuals for what they are.

Had you been someone prone to suicidal thoughts and proven so on the forum, rest assured you wouldn't have gotten that post from me.

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You are always telling me to use my meds, saying i have some mental illness et,c so there really is no excuse for going down that road. It was beyond the pale, and just proves how you have always been the angriest poster all along. We should actually replace forum gay of the year with forum angry bastard, except you would have had the title for about 10 years in a row ;D

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Also no disrespect or anything Tittyfan but advice on civil behaviour from a guy who went to the trouble of Googling a local road bridge, and popular suicide spot, and suggested not only that I throw myself off it, but also asked that I film or photograph the final act, doesn't deserve to be read anyway.

You guys have got away with way too much for way too long. No more big padded gloves from me I am afraid.

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Yes, because you were using those "big padded gloves" before, right? I'm afraid you have me confused with someone who actually falls for your double standards, exaggerations, and blatant lies.

Oh and by the way, since you'll be using that "bridge thing" for the next 20 years.........

Are you an impressionable, gullible, on-the-edge, suicidal teenage kid who all he needs is a slight nudge to take the leap? No, right? You're a mature grandfather (albeit a very combative one), with what you describe as a fulfilling life and job.
So why the theatrics? Really bro..... between you and me. Don't make this about you against any fucking "gang." Man up and see individuals for what they are.

Had you been someone prone to suicidal thoughts and proven so on the forum, rest assured you wouldn't have gotten that post from me.

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Whoops forgot


another one of these to wind you up


;D;D;D;D

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Beanz

Also no disrespect or anything Tittyfan but advice on civil behaviour from a guy who went to the trouble of Googling a local road bridge, and popular suicide spot, and suggested not only that I throw myself off it, but also asked that I film or photograph the final act, doesn't deserve to be read anyway.

You guys have got away with way too much for way too long. No more big padded gloves from me I am afraid.

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Yes, because you were using those "big padded gloves" before, right? I'm afraid you have me confused with someone who actually falls for your double standards, exaggerations, and blatant lies.

Oh and by the way, since you'll be using that "bridge thing" for the next 20 years.........

Are you an impressionable, gullible, on-the-edge, suicidal teenage kid who all he needs is a slight nudge to take the leap? No, right? You're a mature grandfather (albeit a very combative one), with what you describe as a fulfilling life and job.
So why the theatrics? Really bro..... between you and me. Don't make this about you against any fucking "gang." Man up and see individuals for what they are.

Had you been someone prone to suicidal thoughts and proven so on the forum, rest assured you wouldn't have gotten that post from me.

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You are always telling me to use my meds, saying i have some mental illness et,c so there really is no excuse for going down that road. It was beyond the pale, and just proves how you have always been the angriest poster all along. We should actually replace forum gay of the year with forum angry bastard, except you would have had the title for about 10 years in a row ;D

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Yeah well...... we all know you couldn't possibly be Forum Angry Bastard what with all the smilies you sprinkle like fairy dust across all your posts. I might start using that tactic myself.... might need some pointers from the master.

So seriously Beanz. No serious response from you on that one post from me, because of the "bridge thing"?

Can I surmise from this that you'd rather stay angry combative (angry is a bad word around here) constantly? Honest question.

I was kind of hoping to open some closed doors with that post, but then I've got your fucking attack dog snipping at my flanks at every turn.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

So seriously Beanz. No serious response from you on that one post from me, because of the "bridge thing"?

Can I surmise from this that you'd rather stay angry combative (angry is a bad word around here) constantly? Honest question.

I was kind of hoping to open some closed doors with that post, but then I've got your fucking attack dog snipping at my flanks at every turn.

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I already responded seriously twice to it and that was two times too many. "You Guys" want it all ways. You want to make everything a personal bum chum club and then to reserve the right to stick the boot in and go way over the top and get personal when people simply disagree with you. I don't care if you or Wally or Gandalf or the Penny Farthing Hipster bloke like me, because you don't really mean anything to me in any way. It is a boxing forum and there are some decent people on here, but i really don't count you lot among them or the vast majority of other posters. Look at this thread, I started it to talk about a very British subject and it is full of anyone but British posters turning it into a girly handbags at dawn duel.

I blame Trump the fucker and the ultra sensitive babyishness that is now held up as some kind of virtue. It is not, it is a retreat into adolescent behaviour. Still with the angry thing? You could not be further from the mark.


whoops forgot



;D;D

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

So seriously Beanz. No serious response from you on that one post from me, because of the "bridge thing"?

Can I surmise from this that you'd rather stay angry combative (angry is a bad word around here) constantly? Honest question.

I was kind of hoping to open some closed doors with that post, but then I've got your fucking attack dog snipping at my flanks at every turn.

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I already responded seriously twice to it and that was two times too many. "You Guys" want it all ways. You want to make everything a personal bum chum club and then to reserve the right to stick the boot in and go way over the top and get personal when people simply disagree with you. I don't care if you or Wally or Gandalf or the Penny Farthing Hipster bloke like me, because you don't really mean anything to me in any way. It is a boxing forum and there are some decent people on here, but i really don't count you lot among them or the vast majority of other posters. Look at this thread, I started it to talk about a very British subject and it is full of anyone but British posters turning it into a girly handbags at dawn duel.

I blame Trump the fucker and the ultra sensitive babyishness that is now held up as some kind of virtue. It is not, it is a retreat into adolescent behaviour. Still with the angry thing? You could not be further from the mark.


whoops forgot



;D;D

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Actually you did NOT respond seriously to it, but if you want to claim that like all the bold-faced lies you tell you can do so as well. You're almost 50 years old, and I'm pretty sure you know what I mean by "respond". It's not throwing vitriol and catchy one-liners, continuing to (cough) non-angrily insult another person. It's dropping your guard for once in your life and attempting to engage as I'm sure you'd be obliged to do in person. Pity these keyboards don't afford us the opportunity for some genuine communication.

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Originally Posted by Beanz

So the clueless, unelected Prime minister has unsurprisingly revealed her intent to use Brexit as a cover to impose Tory ideology through the back door. So instead of removing power from the elite of the EU and carrying out her mandate to negotiate on behalf of British citizens and businesses, she has opened her dialogue with Europe by threatening to make the UK a corporate tax haven. Meanwhile Boris, the British bumbling equivalent of Twatter addicted Trump, has called anyone in Europe who does not agree with him a Nazi.Cruella de May has become so deluded that she actually believes rather than slowly dismantling social care and the NHS she is somehow an example of leadership. This from a former remainer who has 180'ed on leaving the single market and sat there as the NHS crumbles around her.So... Brexit, what do you think the realities of it will mean for you, your business, your family, your friends and/or work colleagues?Is there a plan? It's now firmly in the court of those who voted for it and yet other than cutting down on immigration there seems to be little in the way of new ideas for financial or cultural growth. It seems to have become a rush to the bottom. A little Britain in which even more services are sold to foreign multinationals and workers rights are eroded further in order to support the sponging elite.

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Two years on from this opening post and not a lot has changed ;D

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

How is Britain under Germany's boot exactly?

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Brexit: Deal essentially impossible, No 10 source says after PM-Merkel call
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49970267


What boot?

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This was Boris last week setting Germany up to take the blame in the British press for Britain being unable to make a deal. This has zero bearing on whether Britain in the EU is in any way dominated by Germany. You can't find any evidence to support the ridiculous claim you made because there isn't any.

Boris released a bunch of private details from a conversation. The details were already well known for three years now, Merkel was just restating the position of the EU 27 countries which is that Britain would have to agree to Irish demands over the Northern Ireland border if Britain wanted to make a deal. Boris eventually agreed to the Irish demands. This is an object lesson for how negotiations will eventually work out when Britain leaves. It turns out that twenty seven countries working together are much more powerful than one country. And that one small country (Ireland), historically dominated/militarily occupied by another bigger country (Britain) is now much more powerful as a member of the twenty seven than the bigger country is by itself.

It's also a textbook example of how the press in Britain, which forms public opinion, works. Look how the negotiations have been covered over the past few years. This from January 2017:

https://i.postimg.cc/Gt5svGMq/may-times-front-page.jpg

Look how accurate that was. Now Boris caved to EU/Irish demands by agreeing a border in the Irish sea, something a year ago he and May and the rest of them had said a British government could never agree to, and the press is selling this as Boris gets the deal everybody said was impossible to get.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Boris went around all of Europe's leaders even though there are negotiators that they must go through. There are 27 countries that need to agree.

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27 other countries need to agree to ALLOW Britain to implement the will of their people.


Yes indeed, no boot at all

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Nothing is stopping Britain doing anything. Britain can walk away from the EU tomorrow just by sending a letter. But then they're out of the customs union and the economy falls off a cliff. Britain is getting a divorce from the EU and the other party in this divorce, the EU countries, have a say in this too. If you got a divorce and decided you'd keep the house and assets and would transfer all the joint debt into your wife's name you would not be able to do this. Because there are contract laws and you signed a contract with your wife. Same thing here. Britainhas to negotiate a mutually acceptable resolution with the union it's breaking away from. Even the fucking idiots running the country realise they can't just walk away.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Nothing is stopping Britain doing anything. Britain can walk away from the EU tomorrow just by sending a letter. But then they're out of the customs union and the economy falls off a cliff. Britain is getting a divorce from the EU and the other party in this divorce, the EU countries, have a say in this too. If you got a divorce and decided you'd keep the house and assets and would transfer all the joint debt into your wife's name you would not be able to do this. Because there are contract laws and you signed a contract with your wife. Same thing here. Britainhas to negotiate a mutually acceptable resolution with the union it's breaking away from. Even the fucking idiots running the country realise they can't just walk away.

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Yeah not like I'd be one to be aware of the perils of secession from a union Kirk. The main question I have is if the union is voluntary or compulsory...joining certainly seemed voluntary, but leaving....leaving seems a bit more involved now doesn't it?

At the end of the day if Germany wants to make a deal Britain will get a deal, if Germany doesn't want to make a deal then there will be no deal. It is the power of that nation in the EU which is why I mentioned Britain being under Germany's boot.....yes, indeed you are and it's not an enviable predicament in which you find yourselves.



And the more Establishment Tories (not sure what else I'd call them) were quite full of themselves and their hubris allowed for Brexit to win at the polls. Had the choice been Remain vs Brexit with a deal vs Brexit deal or not then the vote would have been split and only the mere illusion of choice given to the people. Ironically if the people press for a deal then you're sadly back at that "illusion of a choice" as Germany will offer no deal that anyone will want to accept....that boot there, that's the one you're all under and the entire nation has my empathy as I am absolutely CERTAIN the longer this drags out the more like a redheaded stepchild Britain will be treated by the EU. Politicians are quite vindictive....after a while a no deal Brexit might look like a relief, I certainly hope it doesn't come to that.

If anyone has a boot it is Ireland and DUP.

The complicit nature of Modern news media. US Breitbart US MSM despite what its defenders claim, as well as the UK MSM selling the same bigoted nonsense the Prime Minister and his tory rabble repeat. Look how clever it is in that this trope has been adopted by those repeating the same rubbish thinking, believing they have rejected the MSM. Played in such a way that they feel compelled to spread the lie on behalf of the masters they think they are exposing. The stupidly shallow and vacuous cultural marxism trope is another prime example. Xenophobia dressed up as patriotism and common sense.



https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...5LqJ3RFiz_aCB4

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Nothing is stopping Britain doing anything. Britain can walk away from the EU tomorrow just by sending a letter. But then they're out of the customs union and the economy falls off a cliff. Britain is getting a divorce from the EU and the other party in this divorce, the EU countries, have a say in this too. If you got a divorce and decided you'd keep the house and assets and would transfer all the joint debt into your wife's name you would not be able to do this. Because there are contract laws and you signed a contract with your wife. Same thing here. Britainhas to negotiate a mutually acceptable resolution with the union it's breaking away from. Even the fucking idiots running the country realise they can't just walk away.

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Yeah not like I'd be one to be aware of the perils of secession from a union Kirk. The main question I have is if the union is voluntary or compulsory...joining certainly seemed voluntary, but leaving....leaving seems a bit more involved now doesn't it?

At the end of the day if Germany wants to make a deal Britain will get a deal, if Germany doesn't want to make a deal then there will be no deal. It is the power of that nation in the EU which is why I mentioned Britain being under Germany's boot.....yes, indeed you are and it's not an enviable predicament in which you find yourselves.



And the more Establishment Tories (not sure what else I'd call them) were quite full of themselves and their hubris allowed for Brexit to win at the polls. Had the choice been Remain vs Brexit with a deal vs Brexit deal or not then the vote would have been split and only the mere illusion of choice given to the people. Ironically if the people press for a deal then you're sadly back at that "illusion of a choice" as Germany will offer no deal that anyone will want to accept....that boot there, that's the one you're all under and the entire nation has my empathy as I am absolutely CERTAIN the longer this drags out the more like a redheaded stepchild Britain will be treated by the EU. Politicians are quite vindictive....after a while a no deal Brexit might look like a relief, I certainly hope it doesn't come to that.

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Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states. What they are doing is attempting to untangle half a century of trade, employment, contractual and various other types of laws and regulations, financial services and banking regulations, criminal/policing arrangements, recirocal arrangements for healthcare and benefits for British citizens living in the EU and vice versa and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Britain isn't negotiating with Germany, they're negotiating with the EU. Like I already explained the main point of contention so far has been Irish demands over the all-Ireland economy. The EU has supported Ireland in this. By pooling their sovereignty with twenty six other countries, by "giving up control", Ireland has emerged with total victory in a dispute with Britain for the first time in history. Once agin Lyle your claim is about divorce proceedings, you still haven't produced any evidence to show that Britain was somehow under Germany's boot when they were in the EU. We kept our own currency, our financial services industry dominated Europe leaving Frankfurt with crumbs and our commissioner ran the financial sercies laws to keep it that way. This will change dramatically when we leave. Now we'll see Frankfurt and Paris go after our financial services, ten percent of our economy.

Whether Britain leaves on WTO terms or with eventual agreement on these issues these issues still need to be resolved. It would be much easier to do this than to leave on WTO terms. Presently only Serbia, Algeria and North Korea trade with the rest of the world on WTO terms. Every other nation has a varying amount of recirocal, bilateral, trilateral, multilateral agreemtns with other countries. Unless you're a cesspit of corruption or a totalitarian state then you have no option but to trade a little sovereignty for access to foreign markets and mutually beneficial deals with other countries.

Britain is the world's fifth largest economy and has an incredibly complex array of laws and treaties with other nations which have all been subsumed by EU membership, something that has been tremendously beneficial for Britain -- just see how well negotiations go with one country lined up against twenty seven or when Britain tries to make trade agreements elsewhere. As an example a starting point for a trade agreement with Turkey would be free movement of ninety million Turks into Britain.

Walking away from every single agreement that Britain has made in the modern era, which is what would happen if they leave on WTO terms , would be absolutely catastrophic for the British economy. As it is they'll spend up to a decade trying to untangle from the EU and any resultant deal will make the country far worse off economically than staying in would have. Just wait and see what a world historic clusterfuck this turns into.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states.

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Well war in situations like this is never the goal, it's never the INTENT to just start a war. There are a lot of things at stake economic and political power, and so yeah while at present it's not bellicose, there's no telling where this leads if the will of the people keeps being denied. Was World War 1 a desired event? Was World War 2 sought out by all parties? Were the Napoleonic Wars something everyone was clamoring for? War is not typically the best first option in situations like this, but given the stakes at play.....I wouldn't be shocked at increasing political violence because just looking at it the optics are not the best regardless of the reporting right now you seem to have the will of the British people (Remoaners excluded) vs the greed for money and power from the EU. And as with certain historical events, the EU seeks to be punitive with Britain....The EU wishes to bring Britain to heel one way or the other and I'm just going to take a wild guess that that kind of attitude won't sit well with the Brits.......or hell what do I know maybe the British people have changed and are more open to accept Europeans as their masters.


But hey, I'm not British, go ahead have another referendum, push Remain yet again, try and split the Brexit vote to have a surefire win...knock yourselves out. See what comes from your tone deaf attitudes. I am certain you'll not only get your way, but you'll achieve a lasting peace in the process.


I'm sure you could fill several libraries with what you think you know about what caused the secession of Confederate states....and as per usual you'd be wrong in the most arrogant of ways.