The Brexit Thread

[Kirkland Laing]

Nothing is stopping Britain doing anything. Britain can walk away from the EU tomorrow just by sending a letter. But then they're out of the customs union and the economy falls off a cliff. Britain is getting a divorce from the EU and the other party in this divorce, the EU countries, have a say in this too. If you got a divorce and decided you'd keep the house and assets and would transfer all the joint debt into your wife's name you would not be able to do this. Because there are contract laws and you signed a contract with your wife. Same thing here. Britainhas to negotiate a mutually acceptable resolution with the union it's breaking away from. Even the fucking idiots running the country realise they can't just walk away.

Yeah not like I'd be one to be aware of the perils of secession from a union Kirk. The main question I have is if the union is voluntary or compulsory...joining certainly seemed voluntary, but leaving....leaving seems a bit more involved now doesn't it?

At the end of the day if Germany wants to make a deal Britain will get a deal, if Germany doesn't want to make a deal then there will be no deal. It is the power of that nation in the EU which is why I mentioned Britain being under Germany's boot.....yes, indeed you are and it's not an enviable predicament in which you find yourselves.



And the more Establishment Tories (not sure what else I'd call them) were quite full of themselves and their hubris allowed for Brexit to win at the polls. Had the choice been Remain vs Brexit with a deal vs Brexit deal or not then the vote would have been split and only the mere illusion of choice given to the people. Ironically if the people press for a deal then you're sadly back at that "illusion of a choice" as Germany will offer no deal that anyone will want to accept....that boot there, that's the one you're all under and the entire nation has my empathy as I am absolutely CERTAIN the longer this drags out the more like a redheaded stepchild Britain will be treated by the EU. Politicians are quite vindictive....after a while a no deal Brexit might look like a relief, I certainly hope it doesn't come to that.

Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states. What they are doing is attempting to untangle half a century of trade, employment, contractual and various other types of laws and regulations, financial services and banking regulations, criminal/policing arrangements, recirocal arrangements for healthcare and benefits for British citizens living in the EU and vice versa and a whole bunch of other stuff.

Britain isn't negotiating with Germany, they're negotiating with the EU. Like I already explained the main point of contention so far has been Irish demands over the all-Ireland economy. The EU has supported Ireland in this. By pooling their sovereignty with twenty six other countries, by "giving up control", Ireland has emerged with total victory in a dispute with Britain for the first time in history. Once agin Lyle your claim is about divorce proceedings, you still haven't produced any evidence to show that Britain was somehow under Germany's boot when they were in the EU. We kept our own currency, our financial services industry dominated Europe leaving Frankfurt with crumbs and our commissioner ran the financial sercies laws to keep it that way. This will change dramatically when we leave. Now we'll see Frankfurt and Paris go after our financial services, ten percent of our economy.

Whether Britain leaves on WTO terms or with eventual agreement on these issues these issues still need to be resolved. It would be much easier to do this than to leave on WTO terms. Presently only Serbia, Algeria and North Korea trade with the rest of the world on WTO terms. Every other nation has a varying amount of recirocal, bilateral, trilateral, multilateral agreemtns with other countries. Unless you're a cesspit of corruption or a totalitarian state then you have no option but to trade a little sovereignty for access to foreign markets and mutually beneficial deals with other countries.

Britain is the world's fifth largest economy and has an incredibly complex array of laws and treaties with other nations which have all been subsumed by EU membership, something that has been tremendously beneficial for Britain -- just see how well negotiations go with one country lined up against twenty seven or when Britain tries to make trade agreements elsewhere. As an example a starting point for a trade agreement with Turkey would be free movement of ninety million Turks into Britain.

Walking away from every single agreement that Britain has made in the modern era, which is what would happen if they leave on WTO terms , would be absolutely catastrophic for the British economy. As it is they'll spend up to a decade trying to untangle from the EU and any resultant deal will make the country far worse off economically than staying in would have. Just wait and see what a world historic clusterfuck this turns into.

[El Kabong]

Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states.

Well war in situations like this is never the goal, it's never the INTENT to just start a war. There are a lot of things at stake economic and political power, and so yeah while at present it's not bellicose, there's no telling where this leads if the will of the people keeps being denied. Was World War 1 a desired event? Was World War 2 sought out by all parties? Were the Napoleonic Wars something everyone was clamoring for? War is not typically the best first option in situations like this, but given the stakes at play.....I wouldn't be shocked at increasing political violence because just looking at it the optics are not the best regardless of the reporting right now you seem to have the will of the British people (Remoaners excluded) vs the greed for money and power from the EU. And as with certain historical events, the EU seeks to be punitive with Britain....The EU wishes to bring Britain to heel one way or the other and I'm just going to take a wild guess that that kind of attitude won't sit well with the Brits.......or hell what do I know maybe the British people have changed and are more open to accept Europeans as their masters.


But hey, I'm not British, go ahead have another referendum, push Remain yet again, try and split the Brexit vote to have a surefire win...knock yourselves out. See what comes from your tone deaf attitudes. I am certain you'll not only get your way, but you'll achieve a lasting peace in the process.


I'm sure you could fill several libraries with what you think you know about what caused the secession of Confederate states....and as per usual you'd be wrong in the most arrogant of ways.

[Kirkland Laing]

Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states.

Well war in situations like this is never the goal, it's never the INTENT to just start a war. There are a lot of things at stake economic and political power, and so yeah while at present it's not bellicose, there's no telling where this leads if the will of the people keeps being denied. Was World War 1 a desired event? Was World War 2 sought out by all parties? Were the Napoleonic Wars something everyone was clamoring for? War is not typically the best first option in situations like this, but given the stakes at play.....I wouldn't be shocked at increasing political violence because just looking at it the optics are not the best regardless of the reporting right now you seem to have the will of the British people (Remoaners excluded) vs the greed for money and power from the EU. And as with certain historical events, the EU seeks to be punitive with Britain....The EU wishes to bring Britain to heel one way or the other and I'm just going to take a wild guess that that kind of attitude won't sit well with the Brits.......or hell what do I know maybe the British people have changed and are more open to accept Europeans as their masters.


But hey, I'm not British, go ahead have another referendum, push Remain yet again, try and split the Brexit vote to have a surefire win...knock yourselves out. See what comes from your tone deaf attitudes. I am certain you'll not only get your way, but you'll achieve a lasting peace in the process.


I'm sure you could fill several libraries with what you think you know about what caused the secession of Confederate states....and as per usual you'd be wrong in the most arrogant of ways.

There's not going to be a war Lyle, there's going to be a very nasty divorce and the idiots who lied to the British public during the referendum campaign ("we hold all the cards" when it comes to negotitating a free trade agreement, we'll be able to negotiate one before we leave the EU etc etc etc etc) will be given a decade long arsekicking by the EU twenty seven. Britain will get absolutely scalped in the negotiations. The British government will become less popular than the clap when the public eventually cotton on to the extent that they've been bullshitted. Just wait till the EU start picking off all the best businesses in Britain.

All you fucking weird southerners have these permanent paraniod ideas about wars starting and feelings of submissiveness/inadequacy whatever it is. Everything comes down to either there's going to be a war or you're going to be dominated by somebody much stronger than you are. You still can't make a single coherent argument about how Britain was in any way subjugated or dominated by Germany when a member of the EU, you just keep rambling on about domination and war. Fucking weirdo.

And I don't have to speculate why the traitor states seceeded Lyle, I can read their own words at the time.Just one of endless examples:


A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

[El Kabong]

There's not going to be a war Lyle, there's going to be a very nasty divorce and the idiots who lied to the British public during the referendum campaign ("we hold all the cards" when it comes to negotitating a free trade agreement, we'll be able to negotiate one before we leave the EU etc etc etc etc) will be given a decade long arsekicking by the EU twenty seven. Britain will get absolutely scalped in the negotiations. The British government will become less popular than the clap when the public eventually cotton on to the extent that they've been bullshitted. Just wait till the EU start picking off all the best businesses in Britain.

All you fucking weird southerners have these permanent paraniod ideas about wars starting and feelings of submissiveness/inadequacy whatever it is. Everything comes down to either there's going to be a war or you're going to be dominated by somebody much stronger than you are. You still can't make a single coherent argument about how Britain was in any way subjugated or dominated by Germany when a member of the EU, you just keep rambling on about domination and war. Fucking weirdo.

And I don't have to speculate why the traitor states seceeded Lyle, I can read their own words at the time.Just one of endless examples:


A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

You seem to relish the idea that Britain will be punished. How very patriotic.

Yeah, sure, I'm paranoid about how wars start. You're so deep, so knowledgeable, and you're never ever wrong.

Try putting that declaration into a little bit of context.

[Gandalf]

Wars have indeed started for less and the Irish are proof that you should respect the right to be free. If people are blocked at the ballot box and occupied, then violence is often a consequential result. Nobody wants that, but it tends to happen when democracy is ignored.

My take is that anyone who considers themselves European only has to take a plane. The road is still open and the skies are free and sometimes blue. It is all free will at the end of the day and you can either stay and accept democracy or leave in protest. You cannot stomp your feet and cry about not getting your own way after a democratic vote.

[Beanz]

Wars have indeed started for less and the Irish are proof that you should respect the right to be free. If people are blocked at the ballot box and occupied, then violence is often a consequential result. Nobody wants that, but it tends to happen when democracy is ignored.

My take is that anyone who considers themselves European only has to take a plane. The road is still open and the skies are free and sometimes blue. It is all free will at the end of the day and you can either stay and accept democracy or leave in protest. You cannot stomp your feet and cry about not getting your own way after a democratic vote.

You are a deluded fool. To think that you can't be both British and European is nonsense. All borders are an invention and not a natural state you Plum. Your street's border, your estate, your city, your county, your country, your continent, they are all just lines drawn by other men and your accident of birth does not much more than prove you are an earthling. You are trying a little too hard. Like many economic migrants you want to preserve the freedom to work, learn, love or educate yourself in somewhere other than your place of birth. to just you and people you imagine are like you.

It is very, very funny but has nothing to do with reality.

You don't live here, you don't pay taxes here, you didn't vote in the referendum and you don't even like the UK

The people stomping their feet and crying are the inept and corrupt Tory Government and people like you blaming anyone but themselves for wanting to smash up a cake and then bawl like a baby when they destroy their own slice in the process.

[Beanz]

Did anybody watch the Rugby? Brilliant game that will not be forgotten in a hurry.

[Gandalf]

Wars have indeed started for less and the Irish are proof that you should respect the right to be free. If people are blocked at the ballot box and occupied, then violence is often a consequential result. Nobody wants that, but it tends to happen when democracy is ignored.

My take is that anyone who considers themselves European only has to take a plane. The road is still open and the skies are free and sometimes blue. It is all free will at the end of the day and you can either stay and accept democracy or leave in protest. You cannot stomp your feet and cry about not getting your own way after a democratic vote.

You are a deluded fool. To think that you can't be both British and European is nonsense. All borders are an invention and not a natural state you Plum. Your street's border, your estate, your city, your county, your country, your continent, they are all just lines drawn by other men and your accident of birth does not much more than prove you are an earthling. You are trying a little too hard. Like many economic migrants you want to preserve the freedom to work, learn, love or educate yourself in somewhere other than your place of birth. to just you and people you imagine are like you.

It is very, very funny but has nothing to do with reality.

You don't live here, you don't pay taxes here, you didn't vote in the referendum and you don't even like the UK

The people stomping their feet and crying are the inept and corrupt Tory Government and people like you blaming anyone but themselves for wanting to smash up a cake and then bawl like a baby when they destroy their own slice in the process.

You do not like the UK whence voting against its sovereignty. Wars and violence have indeed started over less. You do not even believe a country has borders now. Listen to yourself. Most would disagree with you and suggest that attitudes like that are firmly anti British. Like it or not I am more English than much of your continental and seed sowing family.

I argue that economic migrants should apply for a working visa based upon the requirements of the host nation. It is how it works in the world Beanz. Those 'superficial' borders do matter as they contain cultures and systems of power.

The people crying are the likes of yourself going 'Wah. Donald wants my freebies'.

[Kirkland Laing]

There's not going to be a war Lyle, there's going to be a very nasty divorce and the idiots who lied to the British public during the referendum campaign ("we hold all the cards" when it comes to negotitating a free trade agreement, we'll be able to negotiate one before we leave the EU etc etc etc etc) will be given a decade long arsekicking by the EU twenty seven. Britain will get absolutely scalped in the negotiations. The British government will become less popular than the clap when the public eventually cotton on to the extent that they've been bullshitted. Just wait till the EU start picking off all the best businesses in Britain.

All you fucking weird southerners have these permanent paraniod ideas about wars starting and feelings of submissiveness/inadequacy whatever it is. Everything comes down to either there's going to be a war or you're going to be dominated by somebody much stronger than you are. You still can't make a single coherent argument about how Britain was in any way subjugated or dominated by Germany when a member of the EU, you just keep rambling on about domination and war. Fucking weirdo.

And I don't have to speculate why the traitor states seceeded Lyle, I can read their own words at the time.Just one of endless examples:


A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

You seem to relish the idea that Britain will be punished. How very patriotic.

Yeah, sure, I'm paranoid about how wars start. You're so deep, so knowledgeable, and you're never ever wrong.

Try putting that declaration into a little bit of context.

I'm going to have a level of schadenfreude at the whole thing definitely. All the moronic right wing bigots in this country are going to get to repent at leisure over this one. I feel sorry for the people who voted to remain who are going to see their personal situations, incomes and so on affected.

Even the fucking nuttiest righties over here don't think there's going to be a war though, there's obviously a category of American right wing bigots who are even thicker and crazier than our lot.

I'll just keep posting declarations of secession that mention nothing else but fucking slavery until you drop it. You could try reading one Lyle. Of course even in the unlikely event that any of the actual facts managed to penetrate your thick head they'd just fall off your little shelf in a couple of days.


The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States

Georgia

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.......................

http://www.civil-war.net/pages/georgia_declaration.asp

That one goes on for more than five thousand words. More than you read in a month Lyle. And it's all about slavery. A little bit of states' rights, but it's Georgia really upset at the rights of non slaveholding states to not return fugitive slaves to them when they've escaped. What a proud history and heritage you motherfuckers have.

[Gandalf]

Moronic right wing bigots? You are talking about the majority of a nation that simply wants a nation state run for them rather than an entire continent and the world beyond. You are bigotted against British people and are in essence Tony Blair with a Geordie accent.

[Kirkland Laing]

Moronic right wing bigots? You are talking about the majority of a nation that simply wants a nation state run for them rather than an entire continent and the world beyond. You are bigotted against British people and are in essence Tony Blair with a Geordie accent.

It already is run for them. They'll see just how well off they were once we do leave and we start negotiating various trade, employment and other deals with the EU and the rest of the world. I'm not bigoted against British people. I just don't like thick people. It doesn't matter normally that these people have a vote because it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in. This vote was extremely consequential however and almost the entire country voted without having any clear understanding of what they were voting for or against. An extremely complicated situation was reduced to several bullshit slogans because the British electorate, like all electorates, is just too thick to process even simple concepts.

Miles, without googleing, what's the difference between a customs union and a single market? Hahahahahahaha.

[walrus]

Britain is not starting a war here Lyle, it's nothing like the treasonous actions of the confederate states.

Well war in situations like this is never the goal, it's never the INTENT to just start a war. There are a lot of things at stake economic and political power, and so yeah while at present it's not bellicose, there's no telling where this leads if the will of the people keeps being denied. Was World War 1 a desired event? Was World War 2 sought out by all parties? Were the Napoleonic Wars something everyone was clamoring for? War is not typically the best first option in situations like this, but given the stakes at play.....I wouldn't be shocked at increasing political violence because just looking at it the optics are not the best regardless of the reporting right now you seem to have the will of the British people (Remoaners excluded) vs the greed for money and power from the EU. And as with certain historical events, the EU seeks to be punitive with Britain....The EU wishes to bring Britain to heel one way or the other and I'm just going to take a wild guess that that kind of attitude won't sit well with the Brits.......or hell what do I know maybe the British people have changed and are more open to accept Europeans as their masters.


But hey, I'm not British, go ahead have another referendum, push Remain yet again, try and split the Brexit vote to have a surefire win...knock yourselves out. See what comes from your tone deaf attitudes. I am certain you'll not only get your way, but you'll achieve a lasting peace in the process.


I'm sure you could fill several libraries with what you think you know about what caused the secession of Confederate states....and as per usual you'd be wrong in the most arrogant of ways.

There's not going to be a war Lyle, there's going to be a very nasty divorce and the idiots who lied to the British public during the referendum campaign ("we hold all the cards" when it comes to negotitating a free trade agreement, we'll be able to negotiate one before we leave the EU etc etc etc etc) will be given a decade long arsekicking by the EU twenty seven. Britain will get absolutely scalped in the negotiations. The British government will become less popular than the clap when the public eventually cotton on to the extent that they've been bullshitted. Just wait till the EU start picking off all the best businesses in Britain.

All you fucking weird southerners have these permanent paraniod ideas about wars starting and feelings of submissiveness/inadequacy whatever it is. Everything comes down to either there's going to be a war or you're going to be dominated by somebody much stronger than you are. You still can't make a single coherent argument about how Britain was in any way subjugated or dominated by Germany when a member of the EU, you just keep rambling on about domination and war. Fucking weirdo.

And I don't have to speculate why the traitor states seceeded Lyle, I can read their own words at the time.Just one of endless examples:


A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

Does this blow hard google warrior ever stop

[Fatboxingfan]

Kirt is also the NOTHER poster.