Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
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Originally Posted by Greig
I don't think a body attack will be very effective Ice. Hatton is the best body puncher of his generation and he landed several shots that had no effect. And what you say about the body not moving - it's an old cliche that is generally true. But Floyd's feet are so fast that his body does move. He's out of range before you know it. Plus he's so clever with arms defensively on the inside that he's practically impossible to hit clean - either to head or the body.
Nobody is unbeatable, but he is as close to it as I've ever seen.
The only way to beat him is to be a shitload taller and jab him to death. I know he's adaptable but all the adapting in the world still finds it hard to get inside a world class jab and a big reach advantage.
Vernon Forrest said it best when he was fighting Mosley - to kill speed you just gotta have a helluva jab.
Greig,
I agree with several points. Gatti said that Floyd was faster than he expected. He said "it wasn't just the handspeed, he's so fast with his upper-body". That is the problem that FMJ's opponents face: the smart body positioining coupled with that wicked speed.
A point of contention, though. Hatton is not the best bodypuncher of his generation. I think alot of people went bananas over Hatton's bodyshot stoppage of castillo. But Hopkins stoped DLH with a bodyshot. Gatti stopped Dorin with a similar one. Jones actually DID seriously damage Hill. Those punches happen. Hatton landed a nice punch. Kudos. But I would say that both mayweather and Cotto are better bodypunchers than Hatton.
Floyd stopped Bruseles on a bodyshot. Stopped Sharmba on a bodyshot. Did excellent bodywork on Gatti and his best work on Zab was the bodywork. There aren't many aspects of Floyd's game that are still UNDERrated, but his bodywork is underrated.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
I think Hatton is regarding as a great bodypuncher mainly from what he did earlier in his career. He finished a lot of guys of with sickening left hooks to the body.
Imo since he has gone up to world class level he hasn't been as effective a body puncher (with the exception of the Castillo fight).
I think this has something to do with the level of opposition and also the stylistic changes hatton has made. To me he seems so bothered about being hit that gets so close to his opponent. This negates his body attack (like it did against Floyd).
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
There is no one way of beating Floyd Mayweather Jr, because he adapts to any 1 style too quickly. A good jab is needed but you would need to triple and double the jab not throw one jab at a time. Because Mayweather can counter with a right hand over the top of your jab when your throw it only one at a time. You need to go to the body constantly forget the head shots because your be looking all night and never land a clean hard punch on Mayweather's chin. The body never moves so focus mostly your attack to the body something Castillo done very well in there 1st fight. Basically you need to have a good jab, be fast enough to be able to be somewhat competitive in exchanges with Mayweather. And focus mostly your attack to the body.
I think Paul Williams would do well against Mayweather, Williams uses angles on the inside and outside and he uses a great variety of punches to keep Mayweather guessing. Plus he has a decent jab and amazing work rate to keep Mayweather on the ropes, and also Williams hand speed is pretty good as well. The only problem i see is that Williams defense is very leaky and he would leave many countering opportunities for Mayweather.
I agree with you there but that fight will never happen so we'll never know
I think from everyone Oscar laid out the best blueprint on how to beat Floyd . It was applying pressure and working in burst . It worked well but he was too old to maintain it . Castillo also did a decent job with simple eductated pressure .
Apart from Cotto and Paul I cant see anyone really giving him too much trouble at the moment . He has a way of adjusting to any style which is why he is the creme de la creme of boxing .
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QUISQUEYA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
I don't think a body attack will be very effective Ice. Hatton is the best body puncher of his generation and he landed several shots that had no effect. And what you say about the body not moving - it's an old cliche that is generally true. But Floyd's feet are so fast that his body does move. He's out of range before you know it. Plus he's so clever with arms defensively on the inside that he's practically impossible to hit clean - either to head or the body.
Nobody is unbeatable, but he is as close to it as I've ever seen.
The only way to beat him is to be a shitload taller and jab him to death. I know he's adaptable but all the adapting in the world still finds it hard to get inside a world class jab and a big reach advantage.
Vernon Forrest said it best when he was fighting Mosley - to kill speed you just gotta have a helluva jab.
Greig,
I agree with several points. Gatti said that Floyd was faster than he expected. He said "it wasn't just the handspeed, he's so fast with his upper-body". That is the problem that FMJ's opponents face: the smart body positioining coupled with that wicked speed.
A point of contention, though. Hatton is not the best bodypuncher of his generation. I think alot of people went bananas over Hatton's bodyshot stoppage of castillo. But Hopkins stoped DLH with a bodyshot. Gatti stopped Dorin with a similar one. Jones actually DID seriously damage Hill. Those punches happen. Hatton landed a nice punch. Kudos. But I would say that both mayweather and Cotto are better bodypunchers than Hatton.
Floyd stopped Bruseles on a bodyshot. Stopped Sharmba on a bodyshot. Did excellent bodywork on Gatti and his best work on Zab was the bodywork. There aren't many aspects of Floyd's game that are still UNDERrated, but his bodywork is underrated.
Floyd is a grossly underrate body puncher. Did you see Hatton wince from some of those brutal shots to the body? What makes him a great body puncher is that he truly digs into it when he has hurt his opponent with a head shot. When he had Hatton in trouble on the ropes in the 8th he really dug in a couple brutal shots to Ricky, that took everything Ricky had left out of him. Every fighter talks about going to the body against Floyd, yet Floyd wins the body war every time.
Maybe a fighter who can move. All you hear is pressure and attack, maybe some of these guys should worry more about not getting hit so much.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
I think from everyone Oscar laid out the best blueprint on how to beat Floyd . It was applying pressure and working in burst . It worked well but he was too old to maintain it . Castillo also did a decent job with simple eductated pressure .
Apart from Cotto and Paul I cant see anyone really giving him too much trouble at the moment . He has a way of adjusting to any style which is why he is the creme de la creme of boxing .
Wasn't much of Oscar's 'success' a function of a VERY big size/reach advantage? Miguel won't have that. Williams, of course, will.
http://www.pabaon.com/sports/wp-cont...mayweather.jpg
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Remember Hatton had his in some trouble when he charged in like a bull and tried to blitz through Floyd and really rocked him? If a small man can put Floyd in trouble like that, I think a strong fighter his size might be able to finish the job where Ricky failed. I think at some round, that's what pac will do against Marquez and that should sort of be a 'test case' for this 'tactic.' If pac succeeds, so can others - maybe to a lesser extent - against Floyd, but if he fails, others will more likely fail, though I might be stretching the analogy a bit far.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
like a big angry physical fighter can
or maybe with a good right cross \
its hard of someone to beat pbf
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
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Originally Posted by GRBOXINGFAN
You know, I've been watching Floyd for 15 years(Actually maybe 20 years, I met him when he was a kid at Pride Gym, damn I'm old) and he is the smartest fighter i have even seen. He was put through some pretty hard things in that gym from what I hear. Being put in with guys several years older until he would cry. His weakness is his ego. He is a lightweight to junior welterweight and he has the skills to beat much bigger men which is truly rare in boxing. Oscar was too big for him IMO, it took all Floyds smarts and skill to win that fight, even though he won it handily IMO. If the right fighter challenges him at 154 or even 160 in a couple years, Floyd could lose. He is not that big, I know a lot of the world is looking at him at 147 and judging him, but watch him at 130, 135 or 140. Its a different fighter. The speed and skill at the lower weights are other worldly. At 130, Floyd rivaled Roy Jones athleticism, he was a freak of nature. Carrying the extra weight effected his speed in ever way. Physically the 147 pound Floyd we now see is not close to what he was. And his power at 130 was very good to great, where as at 147 it is average. He is winning fights now on defense and brains. Defensively, Floyd is among the best ever, but he gets hit way more at 140 and 147. He was untouchable at lighter weights. Fighters don't have much luck in dropping back down weights, so i doubt we'll see him go lower, but man wouldn't Floyd vs. Pacquiao or Diaz at 135 be interesting.
At 147 maybe Margarito can beat him, or possibly Oscar under the right circumstances. Williams, maybe in a couple years. Margarito could come into a fight night feasably weighing 165 lbs. Cotto is not bigger than Floyd and is not a real threat in my opinion. Floyd's jaw has been proven good at these higher weights so far, but you never know. Floyd has been hurt at 147 too, by Chop Chop and Judah notably. He can take a shot and still stay together.
Floyd's training regiment rivals any fighter's in history. He puts himself through things other fighters cannot imagine in preparing for fights. His training has put much more wear and tear on his body than his fights. This guy does things in the gym that most trainers would think to be suicide. The rumors are true, I have met guys who have helped Floyd train and he has in fact sparred 20, 25 and even 30 rounds against fresh opponents every few rounds. I have not seen Floyd look winded in a fight since Golden Gloves.
The Hatton win was a good one, but i've watched it 20-30 times now (yeah I am that much of a geek). My conclusion is that it wasn't that impressive of a win. No offense to anyone, but Hatton really looked like an amateur at times. His defense was non existent and he just kept walking right into punches. He also telegraphed his punches horribly and Floyd had him timed by the 3rd round. I like Hatton, and Floyd has made many a fighter look poor, but this was a mismatch and I don't consider it in Floyd's top 10 wins. Floyd did look more comfortable at this weight than in the past though, he showed improved foot speed and better hand speed although his head movement isn't what it was at the lower weights.
Floyd can lose. There is definitely someone who can beat him. Maybe at a higher weight class. I think, despite what you hear, he will fight several more times. He'll fight the best at 147 and then possibly take a chance and reach for someone who is just way too big and thats when he could lose. My bet is Floyd is crazy like a fox, he probably knows his limits even if he'd never admit to them in public. I would hope his ego wouldn't get the best of him and he'd take a fight with some huge middleweight or something like that. As a pure boxing fan, I wish he would've never made the jump in weight. We were seeing something at 130 ad 135 that we had never seen before, but as a Floyd fan, I'm glad he moved up so he could display his skills to a bigger audience even if they were diminished some.
CC. good for you, I like your take.
I see Floyd as a fighter above all the rest because he thinks differerntly .
He has thought and so moves in sections and fights differently according to the many distances and what the limits are within all those distances and angles so its then all done with intent.
Most fighters are taught and only think in outside or inside fighting.
Floyd thinks those but also thinks outside elbow, inside elbow,getting someones arm in the way of their own power arm.
Makeing them turn bodily into his shots.
He has already worked on presice movements that are reacting to your position and your limits even on a non contact range when your still comming forwards to him .
Everything he does and reacts to starts early and all for good reasons .
He is not just keeping on his toes or bouncing /waiting for the sake of doing it out of distance for looking or feeling sharper or just for a reaction off of it, as most do.
IT will take a fighter who has thought deeply,then trained into his sparring the same breaking down of all the posiblilties,so as to beat him at his own game.
I cant think of any out there.
The only way he gets beat is by weight or power and being stupid or over confident.
Roy Jones when he was younger and prime had the same understanding between others movment and his own limits at every distance and angle,thats how he made most level fighters with one plan or none look so stupid.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Put Punk ass Floyd and Punk ass Cotto in against Tall Pall Williams and you will have a 2 for 1 answer. Tall Paul slaughters both of them. Scary Floyd and Scary Cotto. The BOOGIE MAN COMETH. Both of u can run but you, all you know that corny line.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
There is no one way of beating Floyd Mayweather Jr, because he adapts to any 1 style too quickly. A good jab is needed but you would need to triple and double the jab not throw one jab at a time. Because Mayweather can counter with a right hand over the top of your jab when your throw it only one at a time. You need to go to the body constantly forget the head shots because your be looking all night and never land a clean hard punch on Mayweather's chin. The body never moves so focus mostly your attack to the body something Castillo done very well in there 1st fight. Basically you need to have a good jab, be fast enough to be able to be somewhat competitive in exchanges with Mayweather. And focus mostly your attack to the body.
I think Paul Williams would do well against Mayweather, Williams uses angles on the inside and outside and he uses a great variety of punches to keep Mayweather guessing. Plus he has a decent jab and amazing work rate to keep Mayweather on the ropes, and also Williams hand speed is pretty good as well. The only problem i see is that Williams defense is very leaky and he would leave many countering opportunities for Mayweather.
If hitting the body worked for Castillo in the first fight,why didn't it work in the second fight? It's because PBF made the adjustment and after watching the so called feared body snatcher Hugman, who did absolutey no significant body work,looking to attack is body is only gonna get you a loss on your record.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
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Originally Posted by Julius Marvelous Rain
nobody can beat floyd.
Nobody can beat Pac either right ? ;D
Everyone is beatable Julius . Right now Floyd looks unstoppable just as Jones did in his peak but theres always an upset waiting to happen . Nobody thought Tyson would lose to Douglas or Lewis to Rahman but it happens in boxing . Floyds biggest danger is becoming complacent.
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing
Actually thats where your wrong, Hatton is a great body puncher but he didn't nearly go to the body enough in the Mayweather fight. That was one of his first mistakes.
Hatton is a noted body puncher and favors the body as a target but im not sure if he is a great body puncher....
I havent seen him do much great body work since the Olivera fight (with the exception of Castillo... that was a great single shot).
I think all fighters who are good slick or good in-fighters hardly ever get hit with big shots to the body.
Hatton struggled with Mayweather particularly becuase he couldnt man handle him the way he wanted to get the shots off the way he likes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by QUISQUEYA
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
Oscar laid out the best blueprint on how to beat Floyd
Wasn't much of Oscar's 'success' a function of a VERY big size/reach advantage? Miguel won't have that. Williams, of course, will.
It wasn't the size, it was the reach. Oscar was the only guy Floyd faced who had a longer reach than him.
Plus yes what Oscar was doing that night was pretty much a bluprint to succes. Oscar never fights like that yet it proved to be working extremely well for him.
I think if you take what Oscar was doing, throw in a few more rights to the body in the middle of the ring and some more jab play close to the ropes then you will find great success in dominating the action and making chances to attack the head provided you a) have the nerve and b) have the stamina to unload in vicious burts for 12 rounds.
Plus a little use of the forearm would be a sweet bonus. When Floyd dips in that way, just keep him there and smash him with a right to the body. He does the same thing in every single fight ^-^ (except, its a right to the head)
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
I don't think there is a perceived way to beat Floyd. No one style can do it simply because Mayweather is so adaptable.
I think the night he finally loses, a whole bunch of variables will come into play.
Mayweather will need to have an off night
Something would need to keep happening to break Mayweather's rythmn.
Mayweather will most likely have to hurt his hand
Mayweather will wind up fighting somebody who is far too big for him
Mayweather will be 35 and will be fighting a stronger, faster up and comer
Mayweather get's lazy and his opponent outworks him, in a dull fight (ala ODLH....almost)
Jesus all these might need to happen on the same night for Mayweather to lose.
The only other thing is if Cotto can hurt him or if Williams can 'outfreak' him with his giant arms (ala Dhalsim from Street Fighter)
Re: What's the best way to go about beating Floyd Mayweather.
This is certainly one of the more frequent topics on Saddo's, and my answer is always the same.... whatever style someone uses against Floyd, to be successful it MUST be based around the jab. If you can't jab, then Floyd will pick you apart.
That's why the only times when De La Hoya was effective were the brief stretches when he worked behind his jab. It's why I always said that Hatton had no shot at beating Floyd, because Ricky has no jab whatsoever.
This is also why Cotto has a legit shot at Mayweather, because Cotto has developed his left jab into a true weapon. He throws his jab often, and it's not just a range-finder, it's a sledgehammer jab that lands like a power punch.
