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Personally P4P lists baffle me...Are we judging The proven all around superior Boxer or The one who beats fellow P4P fighters?
I can see him at 4th behind Mayweather/Pac/J.Marquez and Calzaghe.Yeh,I understand Marquez just lost a one point fight but Imo He is much more soundly and technically skilled than Calzaghe as an all around boxer.Regular weigt divisions are win or loss effected but does that negate your all around Skill as a P4P boxer??
What p4p fighter has Floyd beat SPECTACULARLY? NONE. Bear in mind that Hatton AT 147 is NOT by any means, a p4p fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by caleoh12
Pac on the other hand has beaten MAB, Morales, JMM, all p4pers, and has beaten them by putting their HOFer asses on the floor, MANY TIMES. That is what a p4p king does. Potshotting your way to victory against Baldomir isn't p4p worthy. Nor is illegally using your elbows, shoulders against opponents.
Pac scored 5 wins against 3 future HOFers, 10 KDs and 3 KOs combined.
Calzaghe got floored by a 43 year old future HOFer, and won by SD. I have no problem with him being in #3. But to those people who says he should take Pac's place are just being rediculous.
Btw, Miguel Cotto should be at #4, and Israel Vazquez at 5.
But then that brings you back to the question, can Marquez beat Nard in a p4p match-up? Or can Floyd? The answer is NOT SURE. But Joe did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
I would put him at 4 but to be honest, I've really soured on these P4P deals, do not like them much at all anymore. It seems like splitting hairs and pointless to compare fighters from different weight divisions and the lack of criteria really turned me off these.
Floyd must have slept with JLAQ's girlfriend. It's one thing to root for you're favorite fighter, and boo you're least favorite, but to say that every fighter Floyd has fought is a bum, and to say Pac has fought all the greatest is completely ridiculous.
As for Joe, I got him three right now. Floyd is one, Pac- a very close second until Floyd decides to fight finally, and Joe. JMM and Pac r like a 2-headed monster, and should be tied, but with Pac escaping with the win, JMM falls 1. I put Joe ahead of him simply because,(with the exception of manfredo), his last fights have all been against champs. Overrated or not, they were champs, that were undefeated, and now he beat the concensus #1 light heavy, who is ranked as a p4p fighter,regardless of age, or any other excuse. All Joe has been doing is taking belts, and titles, he has no losses or draws. Although I think some of the other fighters might be better skilled, Joe has done enough lately, and others have lost.Just my opinion.
Yes, Floyd beats a 43 yr old BHOP, p4p, and doesn't get dropped.
Thats my point ,is it about beating a fellow P4P er or showing the better ring Fundamentals and skills over a career throughout.Is Calzaghe a better all around boxer than Marquez ?Wasn't Barrera p4p when Marquez beat him....while Hopkins was #5?Pavlik beat "p4p" Taylor twice but I would not put Kelly on my p4p.Quote:
Originally Posted by JLAQBut then that brings you back to the question, can Marquez beat Nard in a p4p match-up? Or can Floyd? The answer is NOT SURE. But Joe did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'Nawlins
The great Marco Antonio Barrera: OWNED!Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
The great Erik Morales: OWNED!
The great Juan Manuel Marquez: OWNED!
On the other hand, did Floyd own Castillo or DelaHoya, the biggest names in his resume? HELL FUCKING NO! And is Castillo even close to any of the three that Pac absolutely OWNED? Another HELL FUCKING NO!
I rest my case.
P.S. Nard beats Floyd. Especially if the ref helps him.
Pac lost to Morrales, or did you forget, and he had a draw against JMM, which I thought he clearly lost, and the second fight against JMM could have went either way, So owned? you need to watch some more boxing son, because you obviously know nothing about it.
Re Morales: IMO Pac won the first fight. He did KO the beejesus out of Morales in the 2nd and 3rd fights, and if you don't call that ABSOLUTE OWNAGE, I don't know what will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
Re JMM: If a guy puts your ass on the canvass five times in fifteen rounds, the guy basically OWNS you. If you travel 5000 miles to ask the guy for a third fight, the guy OWNS you. If you have a Manny Pacquiao poster in your gym or bedroom, the guy OWNS you.
The second fight against Erik was a good fight, Pac was just better, the third, he was owned, but he still lost one, so he didn't own Erik, just the third fight.
JMM- the first fight, besides the first round, JMM owned Pac. And yes, he got dropped, but was never close to being knocked out. Alot of boxers get dropped, that doesn't mean they were "owned".
I like Pac alot, but to clear the air, Floyd would have never lost to the guys Pac did, including Erik, that's why he's number 1.
Agreed,I would like to see Mayweather fight a stun gun and baseball bat,can't stand him ..but...He does spank Pac around if they met...which they won't...If a guy gets UP 5 times and gives you two hellish fights that are very debatable...Thats more of a Shared Lease than owning;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
I agree with you there mate:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacstraightleft
1 floyd
2 pac
3 joe
4 cotto
5 vazquez
Of course though i think it can change around in a year or 18 months.
What defines the 'greatest fighter' is not where they are in the p4p list but where they retire in the p4p list and what their record says.
If this scenario occurs (and i can see it happening).
Floyd continuously avoids cotto and marg, fights ODLH and a rematch against hatton (fuk knows what hes doing a rematch for in england because nothing hatton did warrants a rematch at all, unless i guess you could say that it was what the ref did which gives the rematch some slight legitamacy), still i can see floyd winning the rematch...but then he might lose to cotto!
If floyd loses to cotto, yet calzaghe beats RJJ and beats pavlik...id have to alter the p4p list to:
1 joe
2 cotto
3 floyd
4 manny
5 vazquez
Of course though, should manny go on to beat 2 more class fighter it would then put manny at the top of the list:
1 manny
2 joe
3 cotto
4 floyd
5 vazquez
So over the next year or 18 months it is possible that we see some changes in the list. Personally i believe its joe's goal to retire as p4p number 1.
I think joe is waiting for pavlik to fight and unite the middle weight velts against abrahams first (because this puts pavlik undisputed and also higher in the p4p list) then will want to fight him in his last fight which will put him at the very top of the list.
Im not interested in what haters think, not interested in the garbage that spews from some people's mouths, im interested in records and performance...that fact is that if JC beats RJJ and pavlik he then has beaten eubank, reid, lacy, kessler, hopkins, RJJ and pavlik, with those quality opponents relinguished and a 47,0,0 record, there is no other place to put him than number 1.
It all depends what happens with floyd though aswell i guess, should floyd beat cotto, marg and ODLH (and rematch with hatton which i think he will) then he remains number 1 in my eyes.
Either way, the chances are there for both joe and floyd to go down in history in the top 5 greatest fighters of the last 25 years!
BUT CAN THEY DO IT;);):confused:
Have to wait n see:)
PAC can make a very strong claim at no. 1 if he achieves "3 titles in 3 weight divisions in 1 year" this year...
By claiming a 130 lbs. belt last March, PAC already achieved 33% of his goal.
Then he will fighting for the 135 lbs. belt next in June in a very winnable fight...
And if PAC gets a 140 lbs. belt (even if it's the IBO belt) in Oct/Nov this year then he has a very strong case for no. 1 P4P...
Go PAC...
.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknowndonor
Floyd lost to Castillo who is not in the league of a Marco Antonio Barrera. You're just hating.
You live in a world where the Manfredys and Corleys of boxing are better than the Sasakuls and Ledwabas. Sadly, that belongs to a close-minded type of thinking where foreign boxers are taken out of the equation. Sure tells us a lot of your boxing knowledge which can only be characterized as provincial.