My Greatest Boxers Of All Time(some Of U Wont Like This)!

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Originally Posted by 1g5a22

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Exactly, and very good point. I cant understand people ranking guys who they maybe saw 1 or 2 fights of. You can't rank a guy from Newspaper clippings. If you do, Roy Jones would be p4p the greatest of all time.

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As true as this is, neither of you have seen probably more then 3 or 4 between you so you can't discredit it either... Ya know?

You're kind doing what he is... In reverse;)

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you raise a valid point

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Not really, because NOBODY has seen enough footage of Jim Jeffries (and remember the guy only had what 20 fights?) to make the assesment that he is the greatest. I haven't said he isn't the greatest, I am saying I haven't seen enough to elevate him to being the greatest ever!

Having said that I do have a fair bit of knowledge about him aswell as Corbett, Sullivan, Johnson, Langford fitzsimmons etc

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by 1g5a22

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

As true as this is, neither of you have seen probably more then 3 or 4 between you so you can't discredit it either... Ya know?

You're kind doing what he is... In reverse;)

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you raise a valid point

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I have Dempsy in my top 10 Heavys of all time and I've seen but 7 of his fights... He's still staying in my top 10.;)

Actually, BIGH and Beanflicker... Is Jack Johnson in your top heavys? How many of his fights have you seen?

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Probably not top ten (although being honest I may have at some time) so I get what you are trying to say ;)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by 1g5a22

you raise a valid point

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I have Dempsy in my top 10 Heavys of all time and I've seen but 7 of his fights... He's still staying in my top 10.;)

Actually, BIGH and Beanflicker... Is Jack Johnson in your top heavys? How many of his fights have you seen?

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Probably not top ten (although being honest I may have at some time) so I get what you are trying to say ;)

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I have actually never seen Jeffreys fight... Course, I've not seen alot of fights;)

This takes fooking ages ;) Just done a few of my favourite divsions

Heavy

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Tyson

(Then any from Lewis, Frazier, Holyfield, Liston, Marciano, Dempsey & Johnson)

Light Heavy

1. Archie Moore
2. Billy Conn
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Roy Jones Jr
5. Michael Spinks
6. Jimmy Bivins
7. Bob Foster
8. Harold Johnson
9. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
10. Maxie Rosenbloom


Middleweight

1. Marvin Hagler
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Harry Greb
4 Sugar Ray Robinson
5. Mickey Walker
6. Charley Burley
7 Bernard Hopkins
8 Stanley Ketchel
9. Marcel Cerdan
10 Tony Zale

Lightweight

1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Tony Canzoneri
4. Joe Gans
5. Ike Williams
6. Alexis Arguello (Greatest Super Feather of all time)
7 Beau Jack
8. Julio Cesar Chavez (All time p4per, but best years at +130
9. Carlos Ortiz
10. Lou Ambers

P4P

1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Henry Armstrong
3 Willie Pepp
4 Muhammad Ali
5 Roberto Duran
6 Benny Leonard
7 Jimmy Wilde
8 Roy Jones Jnr
9 Pernell Whitaker
10 Harry Greb

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by BIG H

Thing is mate (for example) how many Jim Jeffries fights you seen to make your judgement of him as the greatest ever heavyweight??

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Exactly, and very good point. I cant understand people ranking guys who they maybe saw 1 or 2 fights of. You can't rank a guy from Newspaper clippings. If you do, Roy Jones would be p4p the greatest of all time.

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As true as this is, neither of you have seen probably more then 3 or 4 between you so you can't discredit it either... Ya know?

You're kind doing what he is... In reverse;)

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Not really. If I make a statement, its up to me to give reasons and evidence why I feel this way. If you feel that I don't really have sufficient evidence, you can call me on it.

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Actually, BIGH and Beanflicker... Is Jack Johnson in your top heavys? How many of his fights have you seen?

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Actually he's not hehe

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

Actually, BIGH and Beanflicker... Is Jack Johnson in your top heavys? How many of his fights have you seen?

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Actually he's not hehe

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Lol, ok ya got me... But you get my point;)

Yeah I hear you loud and clear. My thing is this: I really respect the old time guys, they were cut from a tougher cloth and they paved the way for boxers today. They fought more, and they lived in tougher conditions.

But I really hate the bias that exists in a lot of boxing fans towards the old school guys. A lot of people speak as though the old guys were clearly superior, and that our generation's great would have been journeymen back then. Guys like Pernell, RJJ, Floyd Mayweahter, Hopkins, Toney, ect would have been great in any era. So when I see people dismissing the greats from the past 30 years or so in favor of the old timers who all we really have to go on is a few grainy news reels and newspaper clippings, that kind of irks me.

No Hagler or Monzon at Middleweight? For Shame!!hehe

I Like Big H's list much better, Although I think Mayweather deserves a spot on the all time lightweight list. He was a monster at lightweight.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Yeah I hear you loud and clear. My thing is this: I really respect the old time guys, they were cut from a tougher cloth and they paved the way for boxers today. They fought more, and they lived in tougher conditions.

But I really hate the bias that exists in a lot of boxing fans towards the old school guys. A lot of people speak as though the old guys were clearly superior, and that our generation's great would have been journeymen back then. Guys like Pernell, RJJ, Floyd Mayweahter, Hopkins, Toney, ect would have been great in any era. So when I see people dismissing the greats from the past 30 years or so in favor of the old timers who all we really have to go on is a few grainy news reels and newspaper clippings, that kind of irks me.

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Oh, I totally agree... I am guilty of doing sometimes aswell... It's funny, I NEVER take peoples word on fighters today... I need to see em but I feel like these guys from the past you kinda have to... there's not really a choice.

I don't know mate those list are a bit off even for old timer's... but I guess it is all opinion but I really don't see it?....Jefferies over Johnson?...Johnson beat Jim silly and has wins over Sam McVea, Ketchal, Tommy Burns, Jack O'Brien, Langford, and was greatly skilled...And I have seen just about ever bit of Footage on Johnson available...

I am glad to see Bob Fitzimmons on the list though...I will be honest it is hard to decide exactly what weight class Bob belongs in but it is not MW...though he personally was a MW in natural size give or take a few pounds he fought above...And he has a hell of a resume considering most his big wins are all over bigger men...

It is interesting to say the least

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Originally Posted by Deanrw

No Hagler or Monzon at Middleweight? For Shame!!hehe.

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Yeah thats really bad IMO. Those are the top 2 MWs EVER imo. And why does Jones get in on the top 10 MWs? Jones is an ATG no doubt but Middleweight isn't exactly the weight everyone remembers him at

I don't want to sound like I'm shitting on your list btw, everyone is entitled to their opinions and its differing opinions that makes for interesting discussion.

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Originally Posted by 1g5a22

Boxing fans have varied opinions as to which fighters were the greatest of all-time. Younger fans prefer the modern fighters. Older fans prefer the old timers. Other fans have mixed and more diversified views.

Those who favor the modern fighters argue that the men have gotten bigger, faster, and stronger over the years. They also point out that techniques have improved with the passing of time.

Those who favor the fighters of the earlier years contend that the men grew up in tougher times and were "hungrier," more rugged, better disciplined, and better conditioned.

I do not believe that all fighters and athletes necessarily get better with the passing years. Athletes do get bigger, faster, and stronger over time. Techniques improve too. But, that does not mean they are better. Different periods of history impart certain attitudes and practices due to the "temper of the times" and the conditions under which the people live. Athletic skills are affected by mental conditioning and discipline as well as physical attributes and techniques. Consequently, performance peaks and ebbs in different periods of history and fighters are better in some periods than they are in others.

It is my definite belief that different periods of history produced better fighters than other periods, but the very best fighters of all-time from any era could fight with each other on a competitive and "near-equal" basis.

In these rankings, I have included a man in several weight classes if I believe him to be among the greatest at that weight. For what it's worth, here is one man's opinion


Heavyweights:

1. Jim Jeffries
2. Jack Johnson
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Joe Louis
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Gene Tunney
7. Jim Corbett
8. Sonny Liston
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Larry Holmes

Cruiserweights:

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Joe Louis
4. Gene Tunney
5. Jim Corbett
6. Rocky Marciano
7. John L. Sullivan
8. Peter Jackson
9. Bob Fitzsimmons
10. Tom Sharkey

Light Heavyweights:

1. Gene Tunney
2. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Sam Langford
5. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
6. Harry Greb
7. Kid McCoy
8. Michael Spinks
9. Archie Moore
10. Bob Foster

Middleweights:

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Stanley Ketchel
3. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
4. Harry Greb
5. Sugar Ray Robinson
6. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
7. Kid McCoy
8. Tommy Ryan
9. Roy Jones Jr.
10. Mickey Walker

Welterweights:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
3. Kid McCoy
4. Tommy Ryan
5. Joe Walcott
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Mickey Walker
9. Tommy Hearns
10. Jack Britton

Lightweights:


1. Benny Leonard
2. Joe Gans
3. Roberto Duran
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Aaron Pryor
6. Jack McAuliffe
7. Packey McFarland
8. Barney Ross
9. Tony Canzoneri
10* Pernell Whitaker
10* George "Kid" Lavigne



Featherweights:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Jem Driscoll
3. Terry McGovern
4. Alexis Arguello
5. Willie Pep
6. Abe Attell
7. George Dixon
8. Sandy Saddler
9. Johnny Dundee
10. Kid Chocolate
Bantamweights:

1. Terry McGovern
2. Eder Jofre
3. Jimmy Barry
4. George Dixon
5. Pete Herman
6. Carlos Zarate
7. Ruben Olivares
8. Panama Al Brown
9. Kid Williams
10. Johnny Coulon

Flyweights:


1. Jimmy Barry
2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Pascual Perez
4. Pancho Villa
5. Fidel LaBarba
6. Frankie Genaro
7. Benny Lynch
8. Midget Wolgast
9. Johnny Buff
10. Peter Kane

Pound-For-Pound:

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
4. Sam Langford
5. Charley Mitchell
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Stanley Ketchel
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
10. Harry Greb





shall i duck for cover now??


im sorry to any RJJ,TYSON,MAYWEATHER etc fanatics



IV GOTTA COME CLEAN PEOPLE,,

ITS MY DADS LIST,HES A KEEN AMATEUR BOXING HISTORIAN,I THOUGHT ID PUT IT OUT THERE TO GAUGE PEOPLES OPINIONS,I KNEW IT WOULD GET PEOPLE TALKING,

SORRY HES A BIT BEHIND THE TIMES

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Your father hasnt heard of Marvin Hagler ? or Ricardo Lopez i presume.

ps. dont you have an opinion of your own ?

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by PRIDE OF BOSTON

I have Dempsy in my top 10 Heavys of all time and I've seen but 7 of his fights... He's still staying in my top 10.;)

Actually, BIGH and Beanflicker... Is Jack Johnson in your top heavys? How many of his fights have you seen?

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Probably not top ten (although being honest I may have at some time) so I get what you are trying to say ;)

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I have actually never seen Jeffreys fight... Course, I've not seen alot of fights;)

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Here are some footage clip[s of Jack...Though the music in te background is gayer then a Bilbo Slumber Party

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bh1XtsVKFFA&feature=related

Some footage of Johnson Vs Jefferies in Jefferies return to the ring

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jBnKIeb7QE8&feature=related