Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
JLC was something special. Aside from some amateur coaching, he was entirely self taught and the only trainer he had was a conditioning coach.
Through absolute grit, determination and raw testosterone, all inspired by necessity, Chavez carved his own legacy. He forced the boxing authorities to take notice with his high octane style and pumping on all cyliders he reached world level.
To have names such as Whittaker, Taylor, De la Hoya and Tszyu on one's record stands testamanet to a good fighter.
To be competitive with any of these names or even to be competitive enough to warrant a win shows the mark of a great fighter.
His style, mentality and opposition doid not allow Chavez to perfect his defence. He would have been outboxed had he "£wasted time" adopting a cautious approach. This translated to a helluva lot of wear and tear as he entered his fights numbered 85+.
It was not JCC that fought De la Hoya and Tszyu, it was a ghost of a once great fighter, a remarkable athlete who's sheer refusal to retreat meant he will go down as perhaps the toughest of all the Mexicans.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Just for the record, he himself did not quit against ODLH, his corner stopped it because he had a real bad cut inside his mouth and was swallowing too much blood. He even got pissed at Merchant when Larry implied he quit, he was livid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwt9pCbtzg
Look at my avatar and that will well you how much of a Chavez fan i am .... but he quit in the 2nd Delahoya fight. He did the same in the 2nd Randall fight.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Whoa, hold the flames.....
Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?
I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)
Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?
If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?
I don't know where to start off but right off the bat I can tell you that if your talking about JCC vs. Tszyu and ODLH and your talking about him quitting and getting found then CLEARLY you are not fully aware of JCCs career.
To judge JCC by those 2 fights and completely ignore and not look into the other 80 something fights he had is IMO a bit naive.
JCC represented much more then just a boxer. He represented a struggle, he represented a country.
I would strongly suggest you try and get your hands on JCCs documentary it was recently released and directed and produced by Diego Luna. You'll understand a lot more about JCC.
The fact that MTaylor outboxed the shit out of him but he fought 'til the end shows you the heart and determination that he had.
I can type here all night but you need to see more then just 4 fights to conprehend his status.
Mick, I didn't say he was found out against Oscar, I know that was him way past his best. Against Tzuyu, I take that back..That was even after Oscar. Also I wasn't 'judging' JCC on 2 fights. I think you just got a bit offended and failed to read my post properly. No worries.
I don't have a 'judgement' on JCC because like you say I havn't seen enough..i'm going by what I know of him and what I have seen. This led me to ask a few questions regarding him. Wanted to know what made him so popular. These responses are exactly what I needed to get educated on him. Is that naive? Sorry bro I won't ask questions in future ;) but either way you've helped me understand also why he is so popular so thank you.
If anyone has the link to JCC's documentary i'd like a watch.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rene69
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Just for the record, he himself did not quit against ODLH, his corner stopped it because he had a real bad cut inside his mouth and was swallowing too much blood. He even got pissed at Merchant when Larry implied he quit, he was livid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwt9pCbtzg
Look at my avatar and that will well you how much of a Chavez fan i am .... but he quit in the 2nd Delahoya fight. He did the same in the 2nd Randall fight.
It looked to me like he was saying no to the corner, now you could take that as "no I don't wan't to continue", or "no I don't want you to stop it." I'll take JCC's word though and disagree with you.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
The second Randall fight I'm not gonna defend because it looked to me like he just took the easy way out hoping he was up on points.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rene69
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Just for the record, he himself did not quit against ODLH, his corner stopped it because he had a real bad cut inside his mouth and was swallowing too much blood. He even got pissed at Merchant when Larry implied he quit, he was livid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwt9pCbtzg
Look at my avatar and that will well you how much of a Chavez fan i am .... but he quit in the 2nd Delahoya fight. He did the same in the 2nd Randall fight.
2nd Randall fight still bothers me, however he won that. Oh wait, Don King production.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rene69
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
Just for the record, he himself did not quit against ODLH, his corner stopped it because he had a real bad cut inside his mouth and was swallowing too much blood. He even got pissed at Merchant when Larry implied he quit, he was livid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGwt9pCbtzg
Look at my avatar and that will well you how much of a Chavez fan i am .... but he quit in the 2nd Delahoya fight. He did the same in the 2nd Randall fight.
It looked to me like he was saying no to the corner, now you could take that as "no I don't wan't to continue", or "no I don't want you to stop it." I'll take JCC's word though and disagree with you.
Well... i read Chavez's lips and body language and both said "no mas". I also speak spanish and could hear his corner telling him that the cut was not bad. He quit plain and simple, and i also agree with someone on here who said that he took the easy way out in the 2nd Randall fight
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
If your going by body language, did you not see him make a little surge towards the end of that round? Thats not the body language of a beaten fighter.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
If your going by body language, did you not see him make a little surge towards the end of that round? Thats not the body language of a beaten fighter.
Yes, and that was his final surge because he thought Hoya hit him after the bell. He also got tagged right before that and looked like a beaten fighter when the bell rang. He was done after that. Sorry man but the guy quit, and that's coming from a huge Chavez fan. The guy was phoenominal up to the 1st Taylor fight....great fighter! I wish i could find some of those in mint shape.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
The headbut Chavez got with Randal II was a pretty big bleeding gash. Who would continue like that? Well, good thing they had a 3rd encounter and it's not like "Oh, Randall was past his prime" but BOTH were at the same level and it was not a boring fight with both of them exchanging here and there.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
I repped everyone one that said how great JCC was, but have to spread the rep before I can do it for hitmandonny.
I fell in love with the JCC even before I knew his name. He was systematically battering a fighter with relentless force and boxing skill. He had a granite chin and very under rated defence where he parried punches so he could get his own in. His conditioning was second to none and fighting skills were up there with the greats.
Yes he quit in his latter fights but do not judge him against those fights. He was never the best sportsman but he was an amazing fighter who fought as if you had offended his mother and he wanted to hurt you real bad. He wanted to punish you before finishing you off, very brutal fighter. A prime Chavez would beat Oscar at the weight they fought.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
I still disagree with you man, its all good you are entitled to your opinion. The surge I was talking about was about 30-1 min left in the round he was coming forward landing rights, not the part where he responds to the late hit by De la Hoya. If his corner told him the cut was not bad they were obviously blind, that was bleeding alot.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
No Contest
I still disagree with you man, its all good you are entitled to your opinion. The surge I was talking about was about 30-1 min left in the round he was coming forward landing rights, not the part where he responds to the late hit by De la Hoya. If his corner told him the cut was not bad they were obviously blind, that was bleeding alot.
Oh, gotcha. I agree with ya there with it being Chavez's best charge of the fight...but it was his last because Hoya clocked him with an uppercut that really jarred and stunned Chavez. And that was the beginning of the end for him. But The cut was blown out of proportion and Chavez wanted no more after that rd.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Oscar is simply "Mexican American" as opposed to "Mexican." And the quitting was done when Chavez was past his prime. And though he got exposed against Whitaker, so did Oscar. And Taylor? He may have been winning on the scorecards, and the stoppage was contriversial, but he got a terrible beating and Chavez ended his career, you can say. I makle nothing of Oscar's fights with Chavez. Nothing. Simply another money making ploy by the Golden Boy.
Re: Why is Julio Ceasar Chavez Such a Loved Legend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Whoa, hold the flames.....
Just an observation I made a long time ago when I watched the Trinidad vs ODLH Legendary Nights. It was said that the Mexican's didn't take to Oscar and prefered a warrior like Julio Ceasar Chavez who would go to war.
That's fair enough but I've been watching some recent JCC (of course i'm no authority, no disrespect intended to some of you who have been fans for way longer than I have) and petty much everytime he fought someone decent he got found out (whitaker, Tsuyu, Taylor etc)...got some gifts and the thing that kind of contradicted what they said about him on that show was that he QUIT against Oscar. The 'warrior' that all the fans loved quit? Am I missing something here?
I've never seen Oscar quit apart from a liver shot he took against Hopkins so why do Mexican's love JCC so much more so? Oscar has never been made to look stupid against any opponent and I find him more talented. His resume as well is absolutely solid. (of course he's got a few gifts himself..namely Sturm...I saw the Whitaker fight Oscars way)
Is it because he is a mainland Mexican and not Mexican-American? Was it because of his look? Was it because of his style?
If anything I'm looking for a bit more of an education about JCC. Is he the biggest Mexican legend?
I don't know where to start off but right off the bat I can tell you that if your talking about JCC vs. Tszyu and ODLH and your talking about him quitting and getting found then CLEARLY you are not fully aware of JCCs career.
To judge JCC by those 2 fights and completely ignore and not look into the other 80 something fights he had is IMO a bit naive.
JCC represented much more then just a boxer. He represented a struggle, he represented a country.
I would strongly suggest you try and get your hands on JCCs documentary it was recently released and directed and produced by Diego Luna. You'll understand a lot more about JCC.
The fact that MTaylor outboxed the shit out of him but he fought 'til the end shows you the heart and determination that he had.
I can type here all night but you need to see more then just 4 fights to conprehend his status.
Mick, I didn't say he was found out against Oscar, I know that was him way past his best. Against Tzuyu, I take that back..That was even after Oscar. Also I wasn't 'judging' JCC on 2 fights. I think you just got a bit offended and failed to read my post properly. No worries.
I don't have a 'judgement' on JCC because like you say I havn't seen enough..i'm going by what I know of him and what I have seen. This led me to ask a few questions regarding him. Wanted to know what made him so popular. These responses are exactly what I needed to get educated on him. Is that naive? Sorry bro I won't ask questions in future ;) but either way you've helped me understand also why he is so popular so thank you.
If anyone has the link to JCC's documentary i'd like a watch.
Fair play I could have read your post different then how you intended it to be.
If I'm not mistaken when you 1st came on here you asked what were some of the best career sets you could get. I suggeseted a couple but now I suggest JCC.
A lot of people think JCCs career took off when he defeated Roger and that's not the case. JCC career took off when he defeated the "heavily" favorite 'Azabache' Martinez who was popular at the time and had just recently prior to the fight signed a 5 fight deal with a Network. A lot of people feel that the Rosario fight is his best inside fight but for me I lean more towards the 'Azabache' fight because that was the 1st time he had set forth his skills at World level against a top opponent.
