Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
So you are giving ODLH resume credit for fighting (but losing) to Tito, Shane, and Hopkins? You also call the first Castillo fight a gift decision, but wasn't the Sturm fight pretty much a gift decision for Oscar? Some would claim Oscar got a bit of a gift in the Quartey fight. And Floyd came back and handled Castillo pretty easily in the rematch.
You mention half a dozen middle of the road guys in Oscar's favor, like Ruelas and Molina, but you leave Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez off the list for Floyd, who are far superior fighters. Chavez was shot when Oscar faced him. And Floyd was freakin 21 when he fought Genaro Hernandez! That counts for something. You knock Manfredy as being no feather because his best wins were Gatti and Paez, but then you use Paez to support your case for Oscar. Manfredy also beat Gabriel Ruelas, a damn good fighter who beat Leija, who you use to support Oscar. When Gatti fought Manfredy, Gatti was pretty much in his prime.
He also just knocked out the top 10 p4p and undefeated Ring #1 LWW champ Ricky Hatton. Oh, and he beat a much larger ODLH at 154 when he started his career at 130. Oscar, who started his career at 135 could never managed a quality win at MW. Don't tell me Sturm. Even if you think he won, it wasn't a quality win with that performance.
Oscar also has a habit of catching guys on the down side, ie Chavez, Pernell, Campos, Mayorga, even Castillejo.
Oscar has a great resume and come September, I'll be rooting like hell for it to be "the night of the jab" so Oscar can put a win over Floyd on his resume. From a personality standpoint, I can't stand PBF and I want to he him humiliated/humbled. Still, facts are facts, Oscar's resume LOOKS much better at the surface level, because you see wins over Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, and Leija, but Chavez was shot, Whitaker was on the downside, and Quartey was nearly a loss. In his biggest fights, Oscar against prime competition has always come up short, except maybe he got robbed by Mosley.
I respect Oscar a ton more for being willing to take risky fights, staying active, and generally being a good representative for the sport. If you include those as part of his resume, I guess Oscar wins, but if you go just based on the wins and losses, Floyd ranks ahead, unless Oscar adds Floyd to his in the the fall.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
No all of these fighters were champions when Floyd fought them.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Can you clarify something...
Is this how many Champions hes faced meaning that some of them by the time they fought were "former" champs?
Am I correct?
If so why not better find how many times they challenged for a title against a champion and won?
ODLH: Bredahl, Rafael, JCC, Pernell, Javier, Vargas, Sturm, Mayorga
PBF: Hernandez, JLC, Gatti, Zab, Baldomir, ODLH
*Let's not forget Zab lost this title to Baldo but the IBF literally gave the title back to Zab after they didn't receive their cut from the pie. I'll give you that one since the name didn't carry any weight by that time. IMO
Now look at those names and tell me which of the PBF opponents comes close to Pernell?
It means how many former title holders he's beaten. Current or past. IBF, WBA or WBC. The WBO is not included since The Ring magazine never acknowledged it. So a win over (former WBO title holder) DeMarcus Corley doesn't count
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
So you are giving ODLH resume credit for fighting (but losing) to Tito, Shane, and Hopkins?
Not commenting on whether he gets credit for losing, but in terms of the fights you mentioned....No doubt he won the 2nd Mosley fight, amd imo he won the Trinidad fight. I think to go as long as he did with B-Hop deserves credit, considering Hop is naurally about 180 pounds and DLH started at Lightweight
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Can you clarify something...
Is this how many Champions hes faced meaning that some of them by the time they fought were "former" champs?
Am I correct?
If so why not better find how many times they challenged for a title against a champion and won?
ODLH: Bredahl, Rafael, JCC, Pernell, Javier, Vargas, Sturm, Mayorga
PBF: Hernandez, JLC, Gatti, Zab, Baldomir, ODLH
*Let's not forget Zab lost this title to Baldo but the IBF literally gave the title back to Zab after they didn't receive their cut from the pie. I'll give you that one since the name didn't carry any weight by that time. IMO
Now look at those names and tell me which of the PBF opponents comes close to Pernell?
It means how many former title holders he's beaten. Current or past. IBF, WBA or WBC. The WBO is not included since The Ring magazine never acknowledged it. So a win over (former WBO title holder) DeMarcus Corley doesn't count
Fuck that...
Look at the list I made that's how many champions (title holders) they've fought & beaten. That's where you see the real numbers. 8 for ODLH and 6 for PBF but look at the names also.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CutMeMick
Can you clarify something...
Is this how many Champions hes faced meaning that some of them by the time they fought were "former" champs?
Am I correct?
If so why not better find how many times they challenged for a title against a champion and won?
ODLH: , Rafael, JCC, Pernell, Javier, Vargas, Sturm, Mayorga
PBF: Hernandez, JLC, Gatti, Zab, Baldomir, ODLH
*Let's not forget Zab lost this title to Baldo but the IBF literally gave the title back to Zab after they didn't receive their cut from the pie. I'll give you that one since the name didn't carry any weight by that time. IMO
Now look at those names and tell me which of the PBF opponents comes close to Pernell?
It means how many former title holders he's beaten. Current or past. IBF, WBA or WBC. The WBO is not included since The Ring magazine never acknowledged it. So a win over (former WBO title holder) DeMarcus Corley doesn't count
Fuck that...
Look at the list I made that's how many champions (title holders) they've fought &
beaten. That's where you see the real numbers. 8 for ODLH and 6 for PBF but look at the names also.
Like Ring magazine I never acknowledge the garbage that is the WBO. So I remove Bredahl (:lolhaha:) and Strum. Making it 6-6. But Oscar names are clearly better.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Floyd does have an impressive resume. Can I fire him now for sleeping on the job?
For as much as he has accomplished, I don't think it is fair for the boxing world to wait around for him.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
So you are giving ODLH resume credit for fighting (but losing) to Tito, Shane, and Hopkins? You also call the first Castillo fight a gift decision, but wasn't the Sturm fight pretty much a gift decision for Oscar? Some would claim Oscar got a bit of a gift in the Quartey fight. And Floyd came back and handled Castillo pretty easily in the rematch.
You mention half a dozen middle of the road guys in Oscar's favor, like Ruelas and Molina, but you leave Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez off the list for Floyd, who are far superior fighters. Chavez was shot when Oscar faced him. And Floyd was freakin 21 when he fought Genaro Hernandez! That counts for something. You knock Manfredy as being no feather because his best wins were Gatti and Paez, but then you use Paez to support your case for Oscar. Manfredy also beat Gabriel Ruelas, a damn good fighter who beat Leija, who you use to support Oscar. When Gatti fought Manfredy, Gatti was pretty much in his prime.
He also just knocked out the top 10 p4p and undefeated Ring #1 LWW champ Ricky Hatton. Oh, and he beat a much larger ODLH at 154 when he started his career at 130. Oscar, who started his career at 135 could never managed a quality win at MW. Don't tell me Sturm. Even if you think he won, it wasn't a quality win with that performance.
Oscar also has a habit of catching guys on the down side, ie Chavez, Pernell, Campos, Mayorga, even Castillejo.
Oscar has a great resume and come September, I'll be rooting like hell for it to be "the night of the jab" so Oscar can put a win over Floyd on his resume. From a personality standpoint, I can't stand PBF and I want to he him humiliated/humbled. Still, facts are facts, Oscar's resume LOOKS much better at the surface level, because you see wins over Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, and Leija, but Chavez was shot, Whitaker was on the downside, and Quartey was nearly a loss. In his biggest fights, Oscar against prime competition has always come up short, except maybe he got robbed by Mosley.
I respect Oscar a ton more for being willing to take risky fights, staying active, and generally being a good representative for the sport. If you include those as part of his resume, I guess Oscar wins, but if you go just based on the wins and losses, Floyd ranks ahead, unless Oscar adds Floyd to his in the the fall.
I never said Oscar beat all of his opponets I said the resume was better. I also mentioned somewhere I believe that Oscar beat common opponents at a younger stage in their careers. A stage when the win actually was something of accomplishment.
I personally rank Oscars resume better. You may rank Floyd's as better but it is my opinion and I think I am entitled to it. I also mentioned something in my second post in this thread that I was naming the opponents off the top of my head so the fact I left 2 or 3 out is not too bad considering.
I have never heard Floyd openly seek out the best. Never one time have I seen him push for a fight with the best in the division he sat in at the time. Win or lose Oscar has sought out the fights. Floyd did not seek out De La Hoya Oscar pushed him for the fight. Same goes for the Hatton bout. I was a Floyd Mayweather JR fan until he left the 135lb division.
Again he is a fighter with great skills but happy not going at it with dangerous opponents.
You mention him just knocking out the #1 ranked LWW in the world but isn't Floyd officially a welterweight? Should he not be looking for the top welterweight opponents out there? I hope you are not going to start using money and fan appeal as an arguement for that one.
I know if Oscar De La Hoya was fighting at welterweight he would be looking for a fight with Cotto or at least Margarito. Regardless if he won or lost.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JT Rock
No mention of Hatton?
Havent you heard
Hatton is now officially an average, washed up fighter after his close shave
120-108 win against lazcano.
:biting:
The fact that 2 judges scored it 120-108 for Hatton shows they were in the pocket. No matter how many knock downs Lazcano would of scored he was going to win
Oh please VD tell us all how you scored this contest.
i could so do with a good chuckle and what with how you assessed hopkins-JC i just know im gonna get one....
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Either way you look at it Floyd has an amazing resume and certainly does not deserve the stick he gets.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Put Em' Up
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RozzySean
So you are giving ODLH resume credit for fighting (but losing) to Tito, Shane, and Hopkins? You also call the first Castillo fight a gift decision, but wasn't the Sturm fight pretty much a gift decision for Oscar? Some would claim Oscar got a bit of a gift in the Quartey fight. And Floyd came back and handled Castillo pretty easily in the rematch.
You mention half a dozen middle of the road guys in Oscar's favor, like Ruelas and Molina, but you leave Jesus Chavez and Carlos Hernandez off the list for Floyd, who are far superior fighters. Chavez was shot when Oscar faced him. And Floyd was freakin 21 when he fought Genaro Hernandez! That counts for something. You knock Manfredy as being no feather because his best wins were Gatti and Paez, but then you use Paez to support your case for Oscar. Manfredy also beat Gabriel Ruelas, a damn good fighter who beat Leija, who you use to support Oscar. When Gatti fought Manfredy, Gatti was pretty much in his prime.
He also just knocked out the top 10 p4p and undefeated Ring #1 LWW champ Ricky Hatton. Oh, and he beat a much larger ODLH at 154 when he started his career at 130. Oscar, who started his career at 135 could never managed a quality win at MW. Don't tell me Sturm. Even if you think he won, it wasn't a quality win with that performance.
Oscar also has a habit of catching guys on the down side, ie Chavez, Pernell, Campos, Mayorga, even Castillejo.
Oscar has a great resume and come September, I'll be rooting like hell for it to be "the night of the jab" so Oscar can put a win over Floyd on his resume. From a personality standpoint, I can't stand PBF and I want to he him humiliated/humbled. Still, facts are facts, Oscar's resume LOOKS much better at the surface level, because you see wins over Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey, and Leija, but Chavez was shot, Whitaker was on the downside, and Quartey was nearly a loss. In his biggest fights, Oscar against prime competition has always come up short, except maybe he got robbed by Mosley.
I respect Oscar a ton more for being willing to take risky fights, staying active, and generally being a good representative for the sport. If you include those as part of his resume, I guess Oscar wins, but if you go just based on the wins and losses, Floyd ranks ahead, unless Oscar adds Floyd to his in the the fall.
I never said Oscar beat all of his opponets I said the resume was better. I also mentioned somewhere I believe that Oscar beat common opponents at a younger stage in their careers. A stage when the win actually was something of accomplishment.
I personally rank Oscars resume better. You may rank Floyd's as better but it is my opinion and I think I am entitled to it. I also mentioned something in my second post in this thread that I was naming the opponents off the top of my head so the fact I left 2 or 3 out is not too bad considering.
I have never heard Floyd openly seek out the best. Never one time have I seen him push for a fight with the best in the division he sat in at the time. Win or lose Oscar has sought out the fights. Floyd did not seek out De La Hoya Oscar pushed him for the fight. Same goes for the Hatton bout. I was a Floyd Mayweather JR fan until he left the 135lb division.
Again he is a fighter with great skills but happy not going at it with dangerous opponents.
You mention him just knocking out the #1 ranked LWW in the world but isn't Floyd officially a welterweight? Should he not be looking for the top welterweight opponents out there? I hope you are not going to start using money and fan appeal as an arguement for that one.
I know if Oscar De La Hoya was fighting at welterweight he would be looking for a fight with Cotto or at least Margarito. Regardless if he won or lost.
Hey, I respect your opinion, and it's a good argument. If you were trying to tell me that, idunno, Zab Judah, had a better resume, I wouldn't have taken the time to reply in detail. It's a good debate. Floyd is technically a WW right now, but he's really a natural LW or LWW. He fights at WW because he can make bigger fights up there, but he would have come down to 140 and done the same thing if it was more practical to make the fight there.
I agree with you 100% that Oscar has alway sought out the best and he's done in without playing all kinds of stupid games like Floyd does. At the lower weights, Floyd sought out the best, but like I agreed, he has cherry-picked at higher weights and didn't fight nearly as often as Oscar did. If he goes on to beat Cotto, it will quite a lot of critics. Floyd wants to fight Cotto, he just wants to build hype and cash in again with Oscar.
I don't agree with trying to minimize the Hatton win. It's a legit, world class star on his resume. Right now, Oscar time on his side, and we'll see what happens when both careers are over.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
In my opinion the guy with the best resume in boxing, at least in terms of who he's fought, if not always winning is Evander Holyfield.
Look at his record.
Tyson twice
Lewis twice
Bowe 3 times
Foreman
Holmes
Moorer twice
Qawi twice
Even past his best in mostly losing efforts he still managed to fight the best that was out there
Byrd
Rahman
Toney
Ruiz
Ibragimov
Plus good wins over Buster Douglas, Michael Dokes etc.
No heavyweight in the history of boxing save for possibly Ali has fought as many great fighters as Holyfield.
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Havent you heard
Hatton is now officially an average, washed up fighter after his close shave 120-108 win against lazcano.
:biting:
The fact that 2 judges scored it 120-108 for Hatton shows they were in the pocket. No matter how many knock downs Lazcano would of scored he was going to win
Oh please VD tell us all how you scored this contest.
i could so do with a good chuckle and what with how you assessed hopkins-JC i just know im gonna get one....
Lazcano won 3 rounds. Only Hatton groupies and those corrupt judges thought Lazcano got shut out
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
Dam,did the Hatton forum shut down? All of a sudden,every thread has some Hatton fan talking about him in it,even though the thread may have nothing to do with Hatton!
Re: Floyd has the bestresume in boxing.
I am not Floyd fan, but i respect his tremendous skill and talent. That being said...i think his resume is extremely weak for someone who claims they are the best fighter of all time. Maybe he is a victim of circumstance: the past few years don't match up with the era of Duran, Hearns, Hagler, or Leonard. Maybe he has cherry picked his opponents in recent years. Or maybe it's a combination of both these things. But ultimately...the three biggest names on his resume (and by biggest i mean the fighters that have brought him the most attention and praise) are Gatti, Oscar, and Hatton. He certainly has fought some quality opposition aside from these three...but it is these three fighters that are the BIG names on his resume. Gatti was perfectly selected for Floyd. Literally a fighter who Floyd could treat like a punching bag. Hatton, for all of his spirit, was physically too small and one dimensional for Floyd. This leaves Oscar. Sure, Oscar wasn't in his prime when he fought Floyd. But i still give Floyd credit for fighting a bigger fighter and puncher than him. Does this make Floyd's win over DelaHoya an incredible and defining victory...not really. Floyd's resume is simply solid. It's not great and it certainly isn't all time great. Maybe the last few fight of his career might change that.
