Which prospect on Dec 06 has the most potential?

urgh..............


surely amir khan deserves a mention


;D;D;D

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him. :D

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

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See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

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I like those categories alot ;D

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Originally Posted by ono

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him. :D

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loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by ono

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him. :D

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loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

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What are you basing that on? Have you read what most of Saddo's members said about Kirkland after his last fight?

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by ono

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him. :D

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loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

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What are you basing that on? Have you read what most of Saddo's members said about Kirkland after his last fight?

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No doubt.Just a thought ,how about Khan vs. Ann Wolfe ?Now thats a fight ;D

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

---

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

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I look at things very similar to this too.

But the champ (The Man) doesn't necessarily have to be The Ring champ. Take the supermiddles... I regard Kessler as clearly the TOP man since Calzaghe's departure and Kessler regaining the winning thread.

His form stands out amongst the other top guys - Bute, Froch, Andrade, Pascal, Mundine etc.. without him needing The Ring title.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by Taeth

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

---

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

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I look at things very similar to this too.

But the champ (The Man) doesn't necessarily have to be The Ring champ. Take the supermiddles... I regard Kessler as clearly the TOP man since Calzaghe's departure and Kessler regaining the winning thread.

His form stands out amongst the other top guys - Bute, Froch, Andrade, Pascal, Mundine etc.. without him needing The Ring title.

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I can certainly make an addendum to reflect this statement, I totally agree. What I can't agree with is Taeth's definition of Prospect, because that would mean Bute (who has potential, but has not faced Kessler) would still be a prospect.

Jacobs looks to have ability but I really don't know enough yet, I've only seen him once or twice and one of the times he was in against the most laughably bad fighter I've seen in a long time.

I would go with Lopez.

I like Ortiz, I'm not sure if he what it takes to be special. We'll see I guess. The main thing is he needs to fight, the guy's activity level is terrible, Bernard Hopkins fights more often than him.

People are taking to literally what I am saying about the belt, I am just saying that guys are prospects if they haven't reached their potential, I consider even the young guys who are contenders to be prospect, but its just words, and each person identifies them differently.

Now what about the champions who own one of the beloved XYZ belts.What are they classified under?

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Originally Posted by The Fightfan

Now what about the champions who own one of the beloved XYZ belts.What are they classified under?

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By the Killersheep categorization method, those would be Strap Holders.

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Originally Posted by hattonthehammer

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Originally Posted by ono

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him. :D

---

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

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;D Hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I consider a fighter a prospect depending on their potential, I think until JML fights either Marquez or Vazquez that he is a prospect.

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Juan Manuel's a champion, not a prospect. Maybe not a very well known champion, but a champion nonetheless. Prospects are good fighters with high probabilities of someday becoming champions. Therein lies the difference.

Glad to be of help.

:)

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I consider a fighter a prospect depending on their potential, I think until JML fights either Marquez or Vazquez that he is a prospect.

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Juan Manuel's a champion, not a prospect. Maybe not a very well known champion, but a champion nonetheless. Prospects are good fighters with high probabilities of someday becoming champions. Therein lies the difference.

Glad to be of help.

:)

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Once again IMO belt holder and champion are two different things nowadays, being the ring champion IMO is being the champion.