Which prospect on Dec 06 has the most potential?

[killersheep]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

[Kel]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

Very accurate assessment of those terms if I may say so

[Dizaster]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

Very accurate assessment of those terms if I may say so

Indeed, in all my years here i've never seen anyone set out a guide of how you would fit someone into the catagory of Journeyman etc...
It's interesting how you could expand as well.. I'd say a journeyman is also a prospect who has had a shot or 2 at a contender and not particularly impressed, but is always ahead of the pack and has beaten some decent prospects..

I've only seen one Jacobs fight, but he looked impressive and will definitely be a good fighter to watch in the future..

[HattonTheHammer]

urgh..............


surely amir khan deserves a mention

[ono]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

[HattonTheHammer]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

[killersheep]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

What are you basing that on? Have you read what most of Saddo's members said about Kirkland after his last fight?

[Spicoli]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

What are you basing that on? Have you read what most of Saddo's members said about Kirkland after his last fight?

No doubt.Just a thought ,how about Khan vs. Ann Wolfe ?Now thats a fight

[OumaFan]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

Hilarious.

[RozzySean]

Amir Khan.

Ortiz would have been my pick but then i remembered Khan stopped him in the ams, and Khan is fighting tomorrow so i thought i'd be a smart arse and pick him.

loss or no loss

if khan held an american passport the members of saddos would be building him up like kirkland or gamboa!!

You are crazy. Khan has gotten so much hype here it isn't even funny, and the mainstream British media his given 10x the expose either Kirkland or Gamboa is getting.

If you still consider Andre Dirrell a prospect, he's is the best right now, followed by Ortiz. I can see him beating ANYBODY in at 168 within two years. He's not quite ready for Kessler right now, but I think beats most of them fight now. Maybe that makes him a contender, but considering that some people still think Berto is a prospect, I'm making Dirrell a prospect. I can see guys Gamboa and Kirkland having fatal flaws that will exposed badly by the wrong matchup, even if they end up grabbing straps.

If Andre Dirrell was British, Steve Bunce wouldn't be shutting up about this guy. He's certainly every bit of the fighter Froch is right now, he's younger, and doesn't have the dangerous technical flaws.

[BigLuke]

Andre Berto... great speed and skills. He will contend for a championship soon.

[BigLuke]

I thought you meant prospect in general. Now i see the dec 6th.

[Poom]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

I like those categories alot

[Fenster]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

I look at things very similar to this too.

But the champ (The Man) doesn't necessarily have to be The Ring champ. Take the supermiddles... I regard Kessler as clearly the TOP man since Calzaghe's departure and Kessler regaining the winning thread.

His form stands out amongst the other top guys - Bute, Froch, Andrade, Pascal, Mundine etc.. without him needing The Ring title.

[killersheep]

Thats close to it, I respect your opinion of it, I guess its hard to say, Personally I still think Dawson is a little bit of a prospect, I think a guy with a certain amount of ability needs to have that defining fight, I mean Hopkins, we didn't really know how to cage his skills until he fought Trinidad at 36, so it gets tricky, but I consider a prospect a guy who we still have questions about what he can become, as opposed to guys who we feel we have a pretty good indication of what skill level they have, how good they can possibly get, so to contradict what I've said before I think a prospect is a guy who hasnt' peaked yet. I think a guy like JML should be in the top 10 p4p eventually, and when that happens he will have stopped being a prospect. I still think Cotto was a prospect/belt holder until he fought Judah, because despite the Quintana fight, we saw his weaknesses as well, and thats when I knew for sure that he was going to be able to hang with the big boys. For Mayweather it was Corrales, Pavlik it was Taylor, Taylor it was Hopkins, Kessler it was the way IMO that he beat Mundine in the second half of that fight. Vazquez it was beating Marquez in the rematch. Pacquiao it was beating Barrera.

Some guys don't have the potential so I feel they reach their mark faster, but some guys have all the potential in the world, and I think that they need the right opponent to bring it out of them, or the right opponent to show, "look I can compete or beat anyone in the world."

See this is where we are going to disagree (respectfully of course). In my estimation anyone that gets to level of challenging for an alphabet title or gets an eliminator bout should be considered a contender, the guys that make up the upper level of any weight class. JuanMa beat DPDL, a guy who has held a strap for a while and held a level of repsect in a division that is has been for sometime loaded with talent. Here's how I would break down my categories.

1. Champ - The Ring Champ
2. Strap Holder - Holder of any of the big four titles
3. Contender - Anyone that is within a fight or two of a title shot or eliminator shot
4. Fringe Contender/Journeyman - Someone that acts as a gatekeeper to contender status, their reward for beating a prospect is to move back into the contender position
5. Prospect - Someone who has not challenged any contenders, but shows promise
6. The Pack - any of the thousands of others that don't have connections to major promoters, or the talent to make a move.

I look at things very similar to this too.

But the champ (The Man) doesn't necessarily have to be The Ring champ. Take the supermiddles... I regard Kessler as clearly the TOP man since Calzaghe's departure and Kessler regaining the winning thread.

His form stands out amongst the other top guys - Bute, Froch, Andrade, Pascal, Mundine etc.. without him needing The Ring title.

I can certainly make an addendum to reflect this statement, I totally agree. What I can't agree with is Taeth's definition of Prospect, because that would mean Bute (who has potential, but has not faced Kessler) would still be a prospect.