Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Its boxing's version of the tap-out.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Theres 3 reasons why i think someone would quit on the stool, They think they are goin to get seriously hurt, They are quitters/pussies, they went to collect a big pay check.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
IMO, a fighter usually quits when he can't take the punishment anymore.
:cool:
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Thread had me thinking.Bobby Czyz is a 4 timer at this,Rewatched his fights with Prince charles Williams and they were identical.He took a huge battering late rounds and corner was urging and telling him to continue on in the 2nd fight....Czyz had to insist he was finished for them to stop it ??Holyfield,Izaquire it was that his eyes & back were pained?
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
In most times, it is the corner that decides that, like in this case as discussed, where Nacho B was interpreted to have declared to Oscar that it is not his decision to make, it was Nacho's.
I remember the great Eddie Futch doing something similar for Joe Frazier in the Thrilla' in Manila going to the 14th round (?). Their interest, first and foremost, is the welfare of their fighter!
It is a matter of life and death, up there atop the ring, at all times... and so... an easy decision to choose LIFE, over death, when one is "gifted" with with even the slightest, COMMON SENSE!
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Oscar was about to get knocked out or badly injured or both if he continued, he probably wanted to spare himself of both.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
If it's justified then its a good decision to quit. Why put your life in more danger than you need to? Most fighters won't quit but you can usually always tell from their body language when they have had enough and thats when the corner should step in.
I know some boxing fans say Tszyu was still in a close fight(he was)and then ask why he quit but he said "I have never been that tired for years and years and years" If he went out for the final round he could have got hurt, it's fine saying he should have fought on in a close fight but if he had sustained a severe injury we would have had multiple threads on here saying the fight should have been halted when it was.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
The doctor asked him if he had a headache and Oscar reluctulantly said yes. He wasn't going to do anything in that fight, he was getting beat on. He's got his family and other careers to think about too.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
My view as a non boxer is that if somebody is willing to put their body so dramatically on the line as part and parcel of the sport, I am not going to crticise them if they decide they don't want to get punched any more. Who am I to criticise the heart of somebody who is willing to get punched in the face for a living when I sit at a desk in a warm office and produce accounts?
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
If you did your best, and prepared... which I think de la Hoya did...
.... I honestly think that he THOUGHT he could win.
Guys.... he was taking an unnecessary beating.
I think he was right to quit, no way he was going to win it, toward the end.
He was on his way to get seriously hurt. Lets face it, like him or not, Oscar's a rarity in the sport, in terms of intelligence. When he speaks, he actually has a bit of character, charm, and we can all understand him because he' speaks clearly! NOT MANY boxers can do that. Oscar was and is good for the sport, and lets hope he can keep being a promoter and continue to give back to the sport.
I've had complaints about his promoting in the past, but this loss and others is a wake-up call. I know that he knows he can't fool the audience any longer, NOW he HAS to put up great matches in order to stay in the sport and survive as a promoter. It's the only way. In a recession, he must put out quality matches. He has to, especially after this horrible defeat, physically he lost and his undercard pay per view just plain sucked! And the main event didn't live up to the billing, BUT I LOVED IT! haha Afterall, I won ten bucks. ;)
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that is somewhat relevant. The guy did get paid 15-20 million dollars or whatever, and that confers a certain obligation to give it your best shot, both in the gym and in the ring. And be prepared to take a little punishment if necessary. Did he do those things in this fight? :-\
Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
This is a question that lends itself to a double standard. As in... "it's ok when Oscar did it, but when anybody else does it, they're quitters."
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.
I think someone has already said that DLH was asked if he had a headache and reluctantly said that he had. When you start getting a headache during a fight and you are taking constant shots to the head time and again, it's time to pull yourself out before you end up with a serious injury - why risk brain damage for the sake of pride? He's got his family to think about, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that is somewhat relevant. The guy did get paid 15-20 million dollars or whatever, and that confers a certain obligation to give it your best shot, both in the gym and in the ring. And be prepared to take a little punishment if necessary. Did he do those things in this fight? :-\
He took a beating for nearly the entire duration of the fight. More importantly [and I say this as someone who paid to watch the fight] money is irrelevant; the man has a wife and kids at home. Would you risk putting yourself in a position where you may not be able to be a father to your children and a husband to your wife for the sake of any amount of money? Personally, I would put my family first - and my own health. I'm pretty sure DLH didn't want to quit - the fact that this was only his second stoppage [I think] tells you that he always does his best for himself and for the fans. Sometimes one's best just isn't good enough - and that, I think, was the case for DLH on the night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?
The thing you have to understand about any fighter, boxer or otherwise, is that they are proud and often exceedingly arrogant individuals - these elements of character are just part of the ingredients necessary to create a great fighter. Of course, this always leads to the same problem; boxers, especially those who have left their mark on the sport, rarely know whent to quit. It's tragic, but the same thing that elevated them on their way to the top often contributes to, or is entirely responsible for their downfall. For example, SRR suffered 15 of his 16 career defeats after his return to the ring in 1955 [the other was a decision against Jake LaMotta]. In fact, most professional athletes find retirement difficult, since they are often still quite young when their careers finish - where do you go from being preoccupied with excellence in your chosen field? Thus, many sportsmen carry on with their careers far longer than is truly reasonable.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SRR
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.
I think someone has already said that DLH was asked if he had a headache and reluctantly said that he had. When you start getting a headache during a fight and you are taking constant shots to the head time and again, it's time to pull yourself out before you end up with a serious injury - why risk brain damage for the sake of pride? He's got his family to think about, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that is somewhat relevant. The guy did get paid 15-20 million dollars or whatever, and that confers a certain obligation to give it your best shot, both in the gym and in the ring. And be prepared to take a little punishment if necessary. Did he do those things in this fight? :-\
He took a beating for nearly the entire duration of the fight. More importantly [and I say this as someone who paid to watch the fight] money is irrelevant; the man has a wife and kids at home. Would you risk putting yourself in a position where you may not be able to be a father to your children and a husband to your wife for the sake of any amount of money? Personally, I would put my family first - and my own health. I'm pretty sure DLH didn't want to quit - the fact that this was only his second stoppage [I think] tells you that he always does his best for himself and for the fans. Sometimes one's best just isn't good enough - and that, I think, was the case for DLH on the night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CGM
Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?
The thing you have to understand about any fighter, boxer or otherwise, is that they are proud and often exceedingly arrogant individuals - these elements of character are just part of the ingredients necessary to create a great fighter. Of course, this always leads to the same problem; boxers, especially those who have left their mark on the sport, rarely know whent to quit. It's tragic, but the same thing that elevated them on their way to the top often contributes to, or is entirely responsible for their downfall. For example, SRR suffered 15 of his 16 career defeats after his return to the ring in 1955 [the other was a decision against Jake LaMotta]. In fact, most professional athletes find retirement difficult, since they are often still quite young when their careers finish - where do you go from being preoccupied with excellence in your chosen field? Thus, many sportsmen carry on with their careers far longer than is truly reasonable.
A well reasoned post.
We've all seen fighters who were taking a pounding fight on and actually come back and win the fight when it's the last thing you thought would happen. I imagine Corrales had a bit of a headache when he got up off the canvas a second time against Castillo. Or Holmes against Shavers. Should a fighter stay in the ring and fight on if he is able to? Apparently not based on that alone.
I am the first to say that Oscar has proved himself many times, he's had a great career. He's never struck me as the quitting type, before Saturday. But then we've never seen him take a beatuing like that either. Not that I'm calling him a quitter after Saturday either.
Brain damage is a risk for anyone who steps into the ring. I know all about the risk boxers take, I don't underestimate it. Boxers take head shots. I would imagine a sore head (headache) is not the most unusual thing. I's be surprised if they stopped a fight every time a boxer had a sore head. That being said, if it was the doctor who stopped the fight, or if he strongly advised DLH to stay on his stool, based on factual information that DLH provided, then one can hardly fault DLH for doing so. So point taken there.
Re: What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?
I always go back to 'The Thriller in Manilla' is Joe Frazier a quitter? IMO he is not, the right decision was made. Accumulation of punches cause more damage than a one punch knockout, Oscar was spent by round 5 and had nothing left, he made the right call at his age and with a family and long career ahead of him in the promotion field.
The fight was not competitive and he didn't ever look like he could turn the fight around.
Tszyu didn't want to quit, his corner did it for him. Tszyu had some problems post fight if i recall so the right decicion was made there too. Tszyu was more competitive in his fight but there was no way he was going to knock Hatton out in the final round (particulary with his balls hanging around his ankles);)
McGirt did the right thing with Paulie, he was never going to stop Hatton.
