What are your feelings about a fighter who quits on the stool?

[SRR]

I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.

I think someone has already said that DLH was asked if he had a headache and reluctantly said that he had. When you start getting a headache during a fight and you are taking constant shots to the head time and again, it's time to pull yourself out before you end up with a serious injury - why risk brain damage for the sake of pride? He's got his family to think about, after all.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that is somewhat relevant. The guy did get paid 15-20 million dollars or whatever, and that confers a certain obligation to give it your best shot, both in the gym and in the ring. And be prepared to take a little punishment if necessary. Did he do those things in this fight?

He took a beating for nearly the entire duration of the fight. More importantly [and I say this as someone who paid to watch the fight] money is irrelevant; the man has a wife and kids at home. Would you risk putting yourself in a position where you may not be able to be a father to your children and a husband to your wife for the sake of any amount of money? Personally, I would put my family first - and my own health. I'm pretty sure DLH didn't want to quit - the fact that this was only his second stoppage [I think] tells you that he always does his best for himself and for the fans. Sometimes one's best just isn't good enough - and that, I think, was the case for DLH on the night.

Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?

The thing you have to understand about any fighter, boxer or otherwise, is that they are proud and often exceedingly arrogant individuals - these elements of character are just part of the ingredients necessary to create a great fighter. Of course, this always leads to the same problem; boxers, especially those who have left their mark on the sport, rarely know whent to quit. It's tragic, but the same thing that elevated them on their way to the top often contributes to, or is entirely responsible for their downfall. For example, SRR suffered 15 of his 16 career defeats after his return to the ring in 1955 [the other was a decision against Jake LaMotta]. In fact, most professional athletes find retirement difficult, since they are often still quite young when their careers finish - where do you go from being preoccupied with excellence in your chosen field? Thus, many sportsmen carry on with their careers far longer than is truly reasonable.

[CGM]

I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.

I think someone has already said that DLH was asked if he had a headache and reluctantly said that he had. When you start getting a headache during a fight and you are taking constant shots to the head time and again, it's time to pull yourself out before you end up with a serious injury - why risk brain damage for the sake of pride? He's got his family to think about, after all.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that is somewhat relevant. The guy did get paid 15-20 million dollars or whatever, and that confers a certain obligation to give it your best shot, both in the gym and in the ring. And be prepared to take a little punishment if necessary. Did he do those things in this fight?

He took a beating for nearly the entire duration of the fight. More importantly [and I say this as someone who paid to watch the fight] money is irrelevant; the man has a wife and kids at home. Would you risk putting yourself in a position where you may not be able to be a father to your children and a husband to your wife for the sake of any amount of money? Personally, I would put my family first - and my own health. I'm pretty sure DLH didn't want to quit - the fact that this was only his second stoppage [I think] tells you that he always does his best for himself and for the fans. Sometimes one's best just isn't good enough - and that, I think, was the case for DLH on the night.

Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?

The thing you have to understand about any fighter, boxer or otherwise, is that they are proud and often exceedingly arrogant individuals - these elements of character are just part of the ingredients necessary to create a great fighter. Of course, this always leads to the same problem; boxers, especially those who have left their mark on the sport, rarely know whent to quit. It's tragic, but the same thing that elevated them on their way to the top often contributes to, or is entirely responsible for their downfall. For example, SRR suffered 15 of his 16 career defeats after his return to the ring in 1955 [the other was a decision against Jake LaMotta]. In fact, most professional athletes find retirement difficult, since they are often still quite young when their careers finish - where do you go from being preoccupied with excellence in your chosen field? Thus, many sportsmen carry on with their careers far longer than is truly reasonable.

A well reasoned post.

We've all seen fighters who were taking a pounding fight on and actually come back and win the fight when it's the last thing you thought would happen. I imagine Corrales had a bit of a headache when he got up off the canvas a second time against Castillo. Or Holmes against Shavers. Should a fighter stay in the ring and fight on if he is able to? Apparently not based on that alone.

I am the first to say that Oscar has proved himself many times, he's had a great career. He's never struck me as the quitting type, before Saturday. But then we've never seen him take a beatuing like that either. Not that I'm calling him a quitter after Saturday either.

Brain damage is a risk for anyone who steps into the ring. I know all about the risk boxers take, I don't underestimate it. Boxers take head shots. I would imagine a sore head (headache) is not the most unusual thing. I's be surprised if they stopped a fight every time a boxer had a sore head. That being said, if it was the doctor who stopped the fight, or if he strongly advised DLH to stay on his stool, based on factual information that DLH provided, then one can hardly fault DLH for doing so. So point taken there.

[THE THIRD MAN]

I always go back to 'The Thriller in Manilla' is Joe Frazier a quitter? IMO he is not, the right decision was made. Accumulation of punches cause more damage than a one punch knockout, Oscar was spent by round 5 and had nothing left, he made the right call at his age and with a family and long career ahead of him in the promotion field.
The fight was not competitive and he didn't ever look like he could turn the fight around.
Tszyu didn't want to quit, his corner did it for him. Tszyu had some problems post fight if i recall so the right decicion was made there too. Tszyu was more competitive in his fight but there was no way he was going to knock Hatton out in the final round (particulary with his balls hanging around his ankles)
McGirt did the right thing with Paulie, he was never going to stop Hatton.

[SRR]

I was a little surprised when DLH packed it in against PAC. He was taking a pounding but he didn't seem to be hurt too bad. At the same time, he sure didn't look capable of throwing a half decent punch, let alone winning. So I guess it''s the right move. I guess it is his trainer and the doctor who are in the position to decide.

I think someone has already said that DLH was asked if he had a headache and reluctantly said that he had. When you start getting a headache during a fight and you are taking constant shots to the head time and again, it's time to pull yourself out before you end up with a serious injury - why risk brain damage for the sake of pride? He's got his family to think about, after all.



He took a beating for nearly the entire duration of the fight. More importantly [and I say this as someone who paid to watch the fight] money is irrelevant; the man has a wife and kids at home. Would you risk putting yourself in a position where you may not be able to be a father to your children and a husband to your wife for the sake of any amount of money? Personally, I would put my family first - and my own health. I'm pretty sure DLH didn't want to quit - the fact that this was only his second stoppage [I think] tells you that he always does his best for himself and for the fans. Sometimes one's best just isn't good enough - and that, I think, was the case for DLH on the night.

Another issue is whether or not DLH knew going in to the fight that something was missing. You'd think an experienced athlete, in tune with his body, would have some kind of idea that he was iin bad shape. Is it right to go through the motions anyway, just for another payday?

The thing you have to understand about any fighter, boxer or otherwise, is that they are proud and often exceedingly arrogant individuals - these elements of character are just part of the ingredients necessary to create a great fighter. Of course, this always leads to the same problem; boxers, especially those who have left their mark on the sport, rarely know whent to quit. It's tragic, but the same thing that elevated them on their way to the top often contributes to, or is entirely responsible for their downfall. For example, SRR suffered 15 of his 16 career defeats after his return to the ring in 1955 [the other was a decision against Jake LaMotta]. In fact, most professional athletes find retirement difficult, since they are often still quite young when their careers finish - where do you go from being preoccupied with excellence in your chosen field? Thus, many sportsmen carry on with their careers far longer than is truly reasonable.

A well reasoned post.

We've all seen fighters who were taking a pounding fight on and actually come back and win the fight when it's the last thing you thought would happen. I imagine Corrales had a bit of a headache when he got up off the canvas a second time against Castillo. Or Holmes against Shavers. Should a fighter stay in the ring and fight on if he is able to? Apparently not based on that alone.

I am the first to say that Oscar has proved himself many times, he's had a great career. He's never struck me as the quitting type, before Saturday. But then we've never seen him take a beatuing like that either. Not that I'm calling him a quitter after Saturday either.

Brain damage is a risk for anyone who steps into the ring. I know all about the risk boxers take, I don't underestimate it. Boxers take head shots. I would imagine a sore head (headache) is not the most unusual thing. I's be surprised if they stopped a fight every time a boxer had a sore head. That being said, if it was the doctor who stopped the fight, or if he strongly advised DLH to stay on his stool, based on factual information that DLH provided, then one can hardly fault DLH for doing so. So point taken there.

To be fair, I think the only way DLH could have won that fight was by knockout - and I think the chances of that happening were slim to none. It's not so much that DLH didn't potentially have the power to KO Pac, I just could not envisage that scenario transpiring at any point in that fight after the eighth round. Of course, every fighter with power always has a puncher's chance - but that's all it would have been. I realise that brain damage is a risk for anyone stepping into the ring - most of the time such damage goes unnoticed, in fact, and I can remember several instances of fighters dying after fights [sometimes not until they took a punch in their next fight] due to brain damage inflicted during the ring. However, one must balance risk vs. reward. If I am DLH and I think I have a good chance to KO Pac in the final 4 rounds then I would opt to fight on, but if I don't think I have a chance, and the doctor has strongly advised retirement [which, as far as I know, DLH's doctor did], then, knowing that I'm miles behind on the scorecard the sensible thing to do is not get up for the next round. I suppose it comes down to whether a fighter makes the choice with head or heart; his pride and ego will always urge him to carry on until the final bell, but I have to say I think Oscar made the right choice by choosing not to put himself through further punishment for what I can only imagine would have been a loss by UD. Others will disagree and talk about reputation as a reward in itself, about 'the legacy', but one could argue continuing may have tarnished his reputation further. Besides that, I think going out again knowing it's almost certain you will lose is more of an emotional decision than a logical one, and as I said, DLH has not only himself but his family to think about.

[Youngblood]

The demeanor of Oscar on the stool, the way round 7 went, and how Pac closed off round 8...told me round 9 would have been an exercise in brutality decided by Pac if he wanted it to be. In the 8th I saw him hit hard and confidently, then moving away letting Oscar come back out, much like a cat playing with its prey. I found it sad to watch, and was glad for the stoppage.

[amat]

You can't hold it against a fighter, no way. Nothing is more important then your health and I'm not in the position to question any fighter's resiliancy and smarts especially a great fighter, any great fighter. Didn't hold it against Acelino Freitas any of the times he quit and I hate when people do. In both fights he was getting tagged repeatedly and it has to be scary to be hit that much. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate when guys like David Diaz stay aggressive and try to win the whole fight and take more punishment then needed but if David Diaz decided he didn't want to take anymore punches would you blame him?

It's good to see some fighters have a sense of reason and if you feel you can't win a fight and one more round isn't worth the risk, there is no reason to jeapordize your well being for fans who won't care about you in a week when you are still having headaches.

I think the same about athletes who retire earlier then everyone wanted them to. If you can sit on money and be comfortable like Barry Sanders or Floyd Mayweather then more power to you. Don't think anyone is obligated to do anything in the sport. Even Zahir Raheem has the right to tell the fans to fuck off and fight the way he does because it's not us putting ourselves at risk in the ring. You are putting yourself at risk if you actually watch a Zahir Raheem fight though.

[Jman76]

Hey as much as we all enjoy boxing, try to put yourself in their shoes. Oscar has 3 or 4 kids and a very pretty wife and he's 35 and 300+ million. Why risk brain damage/death when you have all that. Would you feel the same if your brother was up there? I haven't yet seen the fight, but I've read several round by round scores and it seems this was NOT the Oscar that fought Mayorga or the one that fought Mayweather.

I'm a HUGE Oscar fan but even I think it's time for him to quit fighting . And no matter what everyone says Tito DID NOT beat him & Mosley didn't beat him on the 2nd fight. Even Mayweather didn't convincingly beat him...why so many Oscar haters?

[El Kabong]

I think only the boxer knows how hurt they really are so I don't blame anyone for living to fight another day.


People are STILL harsh on Vitali Klitschko for his performance vs Chris Byrd and then when you compare that to Danny Williams and Evander Holyfield after suffering similar injuries and then look at where their careers went after the courses of action they took, Vitali made the right move and I dare anyone to say otherwise.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Hey as much as we all enjoy boxing, try to put yourself in their shoes. Oscar has 3 or 4 kids and a very pretty wife and he's 35 and 300+ million. Why risk brain damage/death when you have all that. Would you feel the same if your brother was up there? I haven't yet seen the fight, but I've read several round by round scores and it seems this was NOT the Oscar that fought Mayorga or the one that fought Mayweather.

I'm a HUGE Oscar fan but even I think it's time for him to quit fighting . And no matter what everyone says Tito DID NOT beat him & Mosley didn't beat him on the 2nd fight. Even Mayweather didn't convincingly beat him...why so many Oscar haters?

people have been waiting for this for years.