Fast yeah but not as fast as RJJ IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
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Fast yeah but not as fast as RJJ IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Lou Del Valle was RJJ's sparring partner so he obviously learnt something, out of there many sparring sessions. And as i remember it RJJ slipped on a wet spot, no doubt the punch was a decent punch but it was more to do with the wet spot than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by TaethLou Devalle? Did you see that fight? Roy Jones Jr got hit cleanly by plenty of guys in his career. His chin was underrated. Once again who has landed at a high rate on Gamboa? Just because he doesn't fight like a conventional fighter doesn't mean he isn't technically savy. His footwork is great, his bobbing and weaving is amazing, he throws punches properly(I would like to obviously see him plant more on his hooks, but its his style), and his ring generalship is there. This fight he hardly ever dived in like he used to, and he only did so when he knew Gonzalez wasn't throwing back. Also I am not sure which career you were watching, but the one knockdown that Gamboa has had that wasn't related to balance was an elbow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire
Roy Jones Jr didn't keep his hands up, but he barely got hit, last night Gamboa didn't keep his hands up, but he got hit under 20% of the time, if it was even as high as the compubox stated.
As for the jab, he doesn't need it, he is quick enough at getting in that, he doesn't need the jab just like Roy and Floyd used it less as they went up.
Also you talk about mental lapses, but how come everytime(albeit few times) Gonzalez tried to counter, Gamboa was able to evade punches in manner that only somebody who is very sharp would be able to do? He definitely has put on a certain bravado in the past, but it wasn't there last night. He was countered decisively ONCE in a whole fight, Mayweather was countered more than that against slow Baldomir. Mayweather countered plenty on his rise to the top and was hit plenty.
Roy Jones Jr on his way up fought very conservatively(unless his opponent was hurt), he was way bigger than his opponents at 154 so he could entirely control the fight. Roy also didn't take a step up in class until he was quite far into his career, Gamboa has come along much faster.
Gamboa at 22 was fighting in the 112 pound weight division when he won the Olympics, he is fighting 14 pounds north of there.
I definitely see your point of him potentially getting knocked out because of his style, but I don't think its going to happen. There has been too much of a change in his style, he is too fast(with timing), and he is too good of a boxer. You are right ICB that speed isn't everything, but speed doesn't make you the type of amateur he was. He is a lot more than just speed.
Another thing to note is that Gamboa has only been stopped once in his recorded amateur career(over 200+ fights) and it was because he had an injury. And he fought guys a lot bigger than him, at one point he jumped over the batamweight class, and still stopped only once due to injury. If you fight like he does, even in the amateurs if you don't have a good chin, you would have been stopped more than that, expecially against the highest caliber of amateurs in the world.
And anyway Lou Del Valle was a good opponent despite what people say, and how can you compare that to Yuriorkis Gamboa ? Yuriorkis Gamboa has been put down by much lesser opponents than Lou Del Valle. And to my knowledge Yuriorkis Gamboa has been put down almost half a dozen times in only 13 fights.
RJJ was put down for a brief second in a world championship fight, that he dominated. RJJ was also defensive minded and only threw punches when he had to. Yuriorkis Gamboa is much more wild and throws alot of punches, he also leaps in with his hands down.
Im sorry but Yuriorkis Gamboa isn't as special at the moment as your making him out to be. He is nowhere near as good as RJJ was, he may have speed/athletism but he makes alot of bad mistakes. That will get him in trouble against the top fighters, he still hasn't fought any of the elite fighters in his weightclass remember that.
And actually Yuriorkis Gamboa should use his jab because he's good with it when he uses it. He keeps his opponent off balance and it sets up his great hooks to the body, the reason Yuriorkis Gamboa didn't get hit at a high percentage. Was because his opponent was averaging only 20+ punches a round. After that knockdown he didn't take any real risks to counter Yuriorkis Gamboa. And he went into a defensive shell mostly trying to survive than win the fight.
Im not trying to diss Yuriorkis Gamboa i like him alot, i stayed up in the early hours just to watch him fight. And i personally like unorthodox speedy fighters like Yuriorkis Gamboa, i just wish he would be more defensive minded at times. And i wish he would get more technical in his approach and stop being so wild.
He is a great talent and like i said if he does improve on the things i said above, he has a chance of becoming a top 10 P4P fighter in the future. But at the moment IMO he's a KO waiting to happen, i don't want it to happen because he's great for the sport, but i just can't see him staying undefeated with that defense and reckless style at times, even with his great talent, speed, athletism.
He's got skills for sure and may be strong enough to win a world title at featherweight.
But if/when he steps up and fights somebody decent who can punch he's getting wrecked sooner than you can say Amir Khan.
He's also not young either, 27 already so I don't see his defence or chin improving much.
He's super exciting to watch and has tremendous skills though.
A future alphabet world champ I reckon but he doesn't have the defense or chin to be great.
I presume he will move up at some stage and if when he comes up against someone like Soto or Valero he's getting sparked.
Beating a dead horse...I know.But I just for the life of me do not see "It" :dontknow:.Trying to keep an objective mind and fully realizing that he is barely into double digits as a professional but he is repeating the same mistakes over and over.The jab....what jab?He lets his emotions rule the day and should be,(his camp and trainers more so) refining his Basics RIGHT NOW before he gets into the big show and has no plan B.That chip on his shoulder is an inviting target,get the hands up,stop bouncing in and out,He looks easy to time and is pretty predictable Imo.Keep thinking of a newly built,impressive looking house,spectacular to look at but missing the intangibles.....like plumbing,electricity,and at times even a wall or two.If that makes any sence...been a brutal day:bucktooth:.Would not be suprised to see him shoot up to another division next fight or two.
Of course he'll become a champ he's already lined up for a bout vs. Elio Rojas for the vacant WBC strap...
I wish Abner Mares would move up in weight and kick his ass...
I would love to see that matchup in the future at Feather or Super Feather.
If you look at the Feather div. there is no super star there and no dominant fighter.
Thanks for that Mick,been racking my brain wondering who he was headed for.Rojas nothing special but Gamboa to me is strictly fight by fight.You think Mares could/would jump up to 126+....that would be nice.I just see Gamboa getting bigger and in a hurry.Yeah....126 is depleted,Linares,Guerrero going up,Luevano sticking around?Jr. lights is stacked nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
To me,as crazy as it sounds,Get Gamboa out of the limelight for a couple of fights.Off the air and get back to basics.They are rushing this guy in a major way and once you get to the top,its hard to climb back up should you fall.will be exciting while its in progress though.
Man,that mega sig of yours sure has a guy scrolling side to side quite a bit to read thread Lol
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Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsThanks for that Mick,been racking my brain wondering who he was headed for.Rojas nothing special but Gamboa to me is strictly fight by fight.You think Mares could/would jump up to 126+....that would be nice.I just see Gamboa getting bigger and in a hurry.Yeah....126 is depleted,Linares,Guerrero going up,Luevano sticking around?Jr. lights is stacked nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
To me,as crazy as it sounds,Get Gamboa out of the limelight for a couple of fights.Off the air and get back to basics.They are rushing this guy in a major way and once you get to the top,its hard to climb back up should you fall.will be exciting while its in progress though.
Man,that mega sig of yours sure has a guy scrolling side to side quite a bit to read thread Lol
Totally different fight style but I see his career going the way of Joel Julio to be honest.
As spicoli says he makes too many basic mistakes. How many fights has he been dropped in now, the last 4?
As he moves up in class he's going to get hit more and harder, it's not a case of if he gets stopped just a question of when it will happen.
He needs to stick around 125 for a while. He can grab a belt there, but he'll get his ass kicked if he jumps up to any of the quality fighters at 130.
I could actually see Abner Mares beating Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares is a cracking counter puncher. And a counter puncher is what will beat Yuriorkis Gamboa, Abner Mares is one of my favorite prospects at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I love his sharp shooting/counter punching style, he reminds me a little bit of JMM. Who is possibly my favorite fighter at the moment, i hope Abner Mares can achieve what JMM has i think he for certain has the tools to do it.
I guess we will see, I don't think I am wrong, and you guys don't think you are wrong one.
On one point to ICB, I respect what you are saying, but it is contradictory to say Gamboa over use of reflexes is a problem because two of your favorite fighters in Whitaker and Jones, used almost solely reflexes in most situations to not get hit, and both did get hit their fair share. They weren't impossible to hit. I just think because Gamboa is moving so quickly he is more likely to get caught off balance and knocked down, you keep on bringing up how many times he has been down, but how many times has he been hurt, or shown the after affects from the knockdowns? They have all been either flash knockdowns or his feet being in the wrong position when he gets hit.
Guerrero is a disaster waiting to happen. Luevano is another guy that needs to be careful about moving up, but I'd like to see him fight Gamboa eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli surfs 'NawlinsThanks for that Mick,been racking my brain wondering who he was headed for.Rojas nothing special but Gamboa to me is strictly fight by fight.You think Mares could/would jump up to 126+....that would be nice.I just see Gamboa getting bigger and in a hurry.Yeah....126 is depleted,Linares,Guerrero going up,Luevano sticking around?Jr. lights is stacked nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
To me,as crazy as it sounds,Get Gamboa out of the limelight for a couple of fights.Off the air and get back to basics.They are rushing this guy in a major way and once you get to the top,its hard to climb back up should you fall.will be exciting while its in progress though.
Man,that mega sig of yours sure has a guy scrolling side to side quite a bit to read thread Lol
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Originally Posted by Taeth
The only difference Taeth is that even though RJJ, Pernell Whitaker. Over used there reflexes they were mostly defensive fighters, and only took risks when they had to. Pernell Whitaker was only knocked down when he clowned too much.
The only real legit knockdown i can remember of Pernell Whitaker's was against Roger Mayweather, the others were mostly balance issues or getting too over confident.
And RJJ as i said hardly ever got caught flush in his prime, and was only knocked down against Lou Del Valle. Which was mostly to do with a wetspot in the ring. Notice that RJJ picked his spots mostly, and only threw lightning combination in spurts. Yuriorkis Gamboa doesn't plus he hasn't ever got defense on his mind at all. Like RJJ, Pernell Whitaker did.
He's too wild infact he actually in some cases reminds me of a very wild version of RJJ, if Yuriorkis Gamboa could think more about defense. Get more technical and use the jab more he will be a force, but until he does he's just a very talented prospect. Who's waiting to get KO'ed despite some of his strong attributes.
Generally he is too wild, but on Saturday he didn't fight the same way, he was more cautious, he didn't just run in the whole time even though Gonzalez was a guy he could have walked right in on. I think the reason people only throw 20 punches against Gamboa is because they overwhelmed with his speed, power(not true ko power, but he hits hard), output, and movement.
I just rewatched the Gamboa fight last night, and I noticed that Gonzalez did try later on a few times to catch Gamboa with that right hand, and he missed everytime(except one time late when the ref got in the way, which he did a few times too often that fight).
Now I agree 100% Gamboa still has stuff to work on, but to say Saturday night wasn't a vast improvement on the Ramirez and Jimenez fight I would say would be false, and in Gamboa's case it isn't the same stuff other people had to work on. Pacquiao had to learn the basics and learn how to throw something either than his left cross. Gamboa has all the tools already, even defensively, he reacts properly to punches when he sees them coming, he dips well, he bobs well, he has good defensive timing, and obviously those great reflexes, he just needs to respect his opposition more, and learn to hold himself back more. I felt he did to a large degree against Gonzalez, he wasn't rushing headlong in, and he only threw long combinations with his hands by his side a few times.