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Thank you, hope to be able do my best ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I always thought about clash between them in 1989. Mike was undisputed, Evan was growing up in heavyweight rattings. But Mike's shape was very under question than. Divorcing with Givens, Rooney was out. I suppose Holyfield coul broke him down if King get the fight than.
Where were Holyfield and Lewis when Mike was steamrolling the entire HW division?
In the late 80s, Mike beats any HW, alive or dead. Awesome power, hard chin, grit, etc.
That twot of a girl ruined his life and then it was over.
My opinion is that Holyfield is better than Tyson. Holyfield is a great athlete with a great heart, and great skills. He is a true warrior...
Tyson was great, he had speed, could chase his opponents passing punches and reaching spots with his head-torso movements, and most of all had a devastating power. However, Holyfield was a more complete fighter and who beat Tyson twice. I was amazed how fresh Holyfield looked at the end of the first fight... what an athlete... Holyfield also had to fight and beat bigger, stronger opponents without having Tyson's KO punch, but he could use his skills and heart to win.
I vote for Holyfield...
holyfield
At this moment:
Holyfield 16
Tyson 8
no choyce 2
Holyfield had longevity and a bigger heart than Tyson. Im a big fan of both but Holyfield was a bit better. Tyson was great for a couple years, but Holyfield was great for a couple decades.
Used to see the same sort of argument in chess all the time. With very little agreement. Who was the greatest chessplayer of all time?
Garry Kasparov of Russia was the #1 ranked player in the world for over 20 years. But Bobby Fischer of the USA, for about a five year period before he disappeared, dominated his contemporaries like no player before or since. Take your pick.
Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?
Nice answer! :goodpost:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWhere was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?
Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.
I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!
We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuNice answer! :goodpost:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBWhere was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Milash
And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?
Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.
I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!
Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMWe could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuNice answer! :goodpost:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.
I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!
And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.
OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBEvander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMWe could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.
Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.
You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.
Very good comparison but like in Tyson case there wasn't any really competition for Fischer in that eraQuote:
Originally Posted by CGM
and if remember well the former champion Mihail Tall (one of the few “ATG” that he fought) had a positive score on him (4:1)
Therefore I’d pick Kasparov and Holyfield. ;)
I'd say from Amateurs to Pros Holyfield accomplished a lot more than Tyson, only thing Mike did that Holyfield didn't was become the youngest HW champion, yet hes a 2 division undisputed champion, IMO one of if not the greatest Cruiserweights ever, and well just the level of competition and ability to come back from diversity in and out of the ring (heart problem) overall makes him a better fighter
:rolleyes: Oh Christ, this I did not want to debate. But ok, I'll bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by iwng100Very good comparison but like in Tyson case there wasn't any really competition for Fischer in that eraQuote:
Originally Posted by CGM
and if remember well the former champion Mihail Tall (one of the few “ATG” that he fought) had a positive score on him (4:1)
Therefore I’d pick Kasparov and Holyfield. ;)
Yes Kasparov had a longer run at the top. Yes he had Karpov to play against, who was very close to him in ability. But that begs the question, doesn't it?
Look at Fischer's winning percentage over the last five years of his career, and compare it to anyone in the twentieth century, including Kasparov.
Fischer's losses against Tal came early in his career, when Fischer was still in his teens.
To say that Fischer had no good competition is wrong.
But don't take my word for it. Check out what Kasparov himself had to say on the issue. And Kasparov is not one who is given to false modesty, believe me.
You can check my discussion with ICB for my Tyson support.
Montreal rocks! The Habs kind of suck though. ;)