Tyson vs Holyfield - who of them is better fighter?

[ICB]

Where was Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield ? Evander Holyfield was at Cruiserweight and Lennox Lewis was still an Amateur. The big question is where was Mike Tyson in 1991 when he could of fought Evander Holyfield and pulled out on a rib injury, they could of easily set another date.

And where was Mike Tyson in 1996 when he got offered the Lennox Lewis fight, but instead he payed Lennox Lewis money to side step as i remember rightly ?

Nice answer!

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

[CGM]

Nice answer!

Anything with Mike Tyson being compared to ATG fighters will be hard to call because when he was supposed to be in his pomp (1986-1989 according to his fans), there wasn't really any competition for him to be matched with to see how good he really was. The strange thing for me was as soon as there was and he got beat off Evander and Lewis he was no longer the man he was despite being younger and in less wars than them two.

I look at things like this. He fought two ATG's and lost against both of them. I'm not saying Tyson isn't an ATG himself he's just not as good as some of his fans make out!

We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

[ICB]

We could say the same thing about Holyfield. After all, the best two fighters he fought he lost to ( Bowe and Lewis), and other guys he beat at heavyweight weren't exactly stars. Not saying he's not an ATG, just that he's not as good as some of his fans make out!!

Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepatitas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weightclass. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not at Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

[CGM]

Evander Holyfield beat Riddick Bowe once and would of beat him the 3rd time, but he couldn't finish him off because there was something wrong with him in that fight. He was huffing and puffing like an old man only after 3 rounds.

And he was very competitive with Lennox Lewis in there 2nd fight, and could of won. And he did beat ATG's he beat Mike Tyson, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, there both ATG's.

OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

[ICB]

OK, well if you include Qawi, then I'll include Spinks. If you want to talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Bowe III, I'll talk about what might have happened in Holyfield-Tyson II.

Lets forget Lewis-Tyson OK? We all know Tyson was way past it when he fought Lewis. At least I hope we do.

You do have a point about Holy's two victories over Tyson though. If you think that Tyson was still "prime" then that makes a difference.

Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

Im not trying to prove anything bro im just making a point thats it, its impossible to prove anything in mythical match ups. You can only speculate and i say Mike Tyson still got frustrated and lost concentration.

Even in his prime and you could see that against Jose Ribalta, when he couldn't finish him early and got into a tough grueling fight. He lost concentration and become sloppy, and remember Mike Tyson rarely had a stoppage win in the 2nd half of a fight.

I still think Evander Holyfield wins based on this remember Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime. Either when he fought Mike Tyson, i think it would actually go the distance suprisingly with Evander taking a competitive decision.

[CGM]

Thats totally different there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield, in that 3rd fight with Riddick Bowe you know it and i know it. He had Riddick Bowe out in his feet in the corner after he knocked him down.

But he hardly done anything im not sure what was wrong, but there was something for certain wrong with Evander Holyfield fact. Some people say it was heart problems, others say it was Hepititas B. Whatever it was there was something wrong with him.

And what do you mean what might of happened in Evander Holyfield vs Mike Tyson 2 fight ? Mike Tyson had one good round he lost the other 2, he had a similar round like that in there 1st fight. It was the 5th round i believe, then Mike Tyson got taught a lesson and never come close to producing a round like that again.

Evander Holyfield beat Dwight Muhammad Qawi at his best weightclass. Mike Tyson beat Michael Spinks not at his best weight class. Michael Spinks was an ATG at Light Heavyweight not Heavyweight, he shouldn't of even had the belt in the first place. But yes Mike Tyson did technically beat an ATG in Michael Spinks, but i certainly don't believe Michael Spinks was an ATG at Heavyweight but whatever.

Lastly i never brought up Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson, i brought up Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 2. Pointing out alot of people thought Evander Holyfield defeated Lennox Lewis, and that wasn't in Evander Holyfield's prime either.

Evander Holyfield was a massive underdog against Mike Tyson, people were afraid for Evander Holyfield's life against Mike Tyson. Also out of 42 boxing experts only 1 chose Evander Holyfield, and thats simply because Evander Holyfield had looked like a shot fighter in fights against Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer.

Obviously Mike Tyson wasn't in his prime but neither was Evander Holyfield. So its a legit excuse both ways, remember Evander Holyfield was 34 in the Mike Tyson fight. But i do believe Evander Holyfield does deserve alot of credit for beating Mike Tyson, considering how much of an underdog he was.

Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

Im not trying to prove anything bro im just making a point thats it, its impossible to prove anything in mythical match ups. You can only speculate and i say Mike Tyson still got frustrated and lost concentration.

Even in his prime and you could see that against Jose Ribalta, when he couldn't finish him early and got into a tough grueling fight. He lost concentration and become sloppy, and remember Mike Tyson rarely had a stoppage win in the 2nd half of a fight.

I still think Evander Holyfield wins based on this remember Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime. Either when he fought Mike Tyson, i think it would actually go the distance suprisingly with Evander taking a competitive decision.

Remember, Holy wasn't a prime heavyweight when he fought Tyson? OK mon if you say so. I suppose we can both speculate about who was more past their best as a heavyweight.

As for the mythical prime for prime matchup, I speculate for Tyson, you speculate for Holyfield. But if you're telling me that I can't talk prime for prime, then you win it all. I've already granted you the edge on the "better career" criteria.

[ICB]

Heavy sigh. OK, man, you say a lot, but you really don't prove a lot. We could go back and forth all night, and I really don't care all that much.

OK if you insist we'll ignore Bowe Holyfield III, call them even up. As for Holy-Lewis, I'm gonna insist that Lewis takes that series.

Yes you can find a set of criteria by which you can argue that Holyfield had a "better" career. Especially since Tyson was never anything but a heavyweight. We can argue all night long whether Holy's heavyweight wins were more significant that Tyson's heavyweight wins. You might even prove you have a better memory than I do on that regard. But I still say it ain't all that obvious that Holy's wins at heavyweight were that much better than Tysons.

Myself, I followed both careers from early on, It depends what you mean by better, I still say prime Heavyweight Tyson beats prime heavyweight Holy.

Im not trying to prove anything bro im just making a point thats it, its impossible to prove anything in mythical match ups. You can only speculate and i say Mike Tyson still got frustrated and lost concentration.

Even in his prime and you could see that against Jose Ribalta, when he couldn't finish him early and got into a tough grueling fight. He lost concentration and become sloppy, and remember Mike Tyson rarely had a stoppage win in the 2nd half of a fight.

I still think Evander Holyfield wins based on this remember Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime. Either when he fought Mike Tyson, i think it would actually go the distance suprisingly with Evander taking a competitive decision.

Remember, Holy wasn't a prime heavyweight when he fought Tyson? OK mon if you say so. I suppose we can both speculate about who was more past their best as a heavyweight.

As for the mythical prime for prime matchup, I speculate for Tyson, you speculate for Holyfield. But if you're telling me that I can't talk prime for prime, then you win it all. I've already granted you the edge on the "better career" criteria.

Yes i would for certain say Evander Holyfield wasn't in his prime then. His workrate had dropped and he would clinch more and he didn't move as good as he did in the early 90s, his peak was when he beat Riddick Bowe in the rematch, or when he destroyed Buster Douglas. That was his peak performances for certain IMO.

Lastly its not about winning bro no one wins in a debate, unless your talking to a moron but then you've already won the debate before its started. And you can't really win in a mythical match up because no one can prove anything with 100 percent facts.

But i do have the added advantage because Evander Holyfield, still beat a good version of Mike Tyson. Not the prime version for sure but Mike Tyson still had quite a bit left at that point, and he wasn't as shot as people make out.

And as i said Mike Tyson still had mental problems even in his prime, he got frustrated and sloppy against Jose Ribalta when he fought back. And when Mike Tyson couldn't finish him off, Mike Tyson also wasn't that far from losing to James Tillis but the knockdown saved him in the 4th round.

Now James Tillis didn't have a good chin, but yet once he got past the half way point of the fight, he managed to survive because as i said. Mike Tyson gets frustrated and rarely has a stoppage win after the half way point in a fight.

Mike Tyson also lost 4 rounds against Tony Tucker, and we might of actually had an upset had Tony Tucker not broke his right hand. Because he was winning the fight until he broke his right hand in the 4th round, then he went into a shell.

But he still managed to win the last round and fight almost 3 quarters of the fight with a broken hand. Now how did he do that ? because once again Mike Tyson gets frustrated, loses his concentration. And becomes more sloppy and stops setting things up as good as he was earlier, and starts looking more for the 1 punch KO.

Evander Holyfield was just mentally much tougher and had the heart of a true champion. He was also a very good counter puncher which is a bad style match up for Mike Tyson, because Evander Holyfield could time Mike Tyson coming in, just like he did when they fought in 1996 which was a big key. As i said before Evander Holyfield by UD in a tough fight no question IMO.

[Spicoli]

Think the lines are blurred.Could go all night on competition and take one step forward,two steps back.When it alllll comes down to it who was the better fighter?

No doubt for me it was Holyfield.Plain & simple,he bested Tyson not once...but twice.Tyson took a quality match up the 2nd time around between two of the top premiere Heavyweights fans have seen in the last couple of decades and turned it into a grotesque spectacle out of desperation and loss of self control.Some might say the realization that he was in over his head....and in with a better fighter leading to his intentional seeking of a DQ!And for all of the "Tyson was passed his best"....come on?I can see that but In that initial match people,fans,commentators were openly 'fearing' for and expressing concerns for Holyfields 'health'.Hindsight is indeed 20/20 today but living it live and at the time it was coming down,the majority of the boxing masses gave Holyfield barely a snowballs chance in hellz.The boyz at Ring Magazine predicted a 1 round clean KO for Tyson?Especially coming off a face first,one punch KO loss at the hands of Bowe one year to the nearly the exact day.....as well as his pummeling of blown up Lt.Heavyweight and past it Bobby Czyz being unable to cleanly KO him in his fight prior to the 1st Tyson fight.

With that said,Holyfield should join Tyson and GET OUT NOW!Regardless of coming off a highly disputed loss to WBA Chump Valuev.....he needs to retire.Tyson knew when to go,even if it was far too late and he went out ugly.....Holyfield continues in a stubborn borderline selfish march to recapture past glory that is no longer there.....I Need coffee.

[CGM]

I remember how Tyson was the overwhelming favorite. I guess people were wrong weren't they? I can think of a very recent fight where just about everyone was wrong.

In retrospect, three years in jail followed by McNeely, Mathis, Bruno and Seldon might tell us something?

[rjj tszyu]

I remember how Tyson was the overwhelming favorite. I guess people were wrong weren't they? I can think of a very recent fight where just about everyone was wrong.

In retrospect, three years in jail followed by McNeely, Mathis, Bruno and Seldon might tell us something?

Yes but he did a better job on Bruno second time around than he did in his so called prime!

[Gandalf]

Prime against Prime, I believe Tyson would beat Holyfield.

As for who is the better fighter, I find that a very general question.

[Mr140]

I think Holyfeild had better wins and was better pound for pound also if were talking about who i think would win in a match up prime still go with Evander Holyfeild the man was to tough mental and had one hell of a chin and when things get tough he does not crumble he gets stronger.

[CGM]

I remember how Tyson was the overwhelming favorite. I guess people were wrong weren't they? I can think of a very recent fight where just about everyone was wrong.

In retrospect, three years in jail followed by McNeely, Mathis, Bruno and Seldon might tell us something?

Yes but he did a better job on Bruno second time around than he did in his so called prime!

well That proves it then it then.