Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
I was at the fight last night and have to stay I was shocked at the booing of Khan and certainly where I was sat some of it was pure hatred.
I have to admit, and it's no secret that I am not a fan of Amir, that I was supporting Barrera last night but I applauded Khan into the ring and at victory - disappointed that I was.
Can't be good for the kid on home soil - and only fuels racial divisions as there will be those who believe it to be the fact that he is a muslim (again there's no denying that's probably the reson for a small minority of fans) but lets not forget how people were anti-Eubank and Audley too.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cortez The Killer
Ive always assumed it must be a racist thing too. Khan is a young (22 and no one give the guy an effing break?) and has loads of potential.
When there was so much happiness floating around after he got Ko'd by Prescott I thought it was a bit off.
Then reading other posts building up the the MAB fight talking about "hating" him and wanting to see him get knocked out again I couldnt understand the some peoples animosity towards him. I havent followed Khan much but everything I see about him; nice young fighter with good potential...doesnt give many reasons to hate and want to see him fail.
I started to think it must be a problem with Khan's detractors and not with Khan.
Either way, it has made me more of a Khan supporter than I otherwise would have.
Fighting close to his home town and having the crowd boo him like that? That is pathetic for the crowd, hope Amir continues to do well and sticks it them.
The booing was understandable.
Khan has tremendous support. He normally fights in front of 5-7000, this time it was 20,000, obviously a huge turn-out because of the legend he was facing, so naturally Barrera had a ton of support hence the booing for Khan. ;)
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
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Originally Posted by
holmcall
I'm confused by the hatred Kahn seems to engender. Just don't understand it. Maybe someone can help me with it.
As for Mundine, I know he is pretty mouthy and I know he said some things after 9/11, but surely there must be some other reasons for the hate he seems to stir up. What is it?
I am truly puzzled by this. I have always tried to separate a fighter's conduct outsside the ring from his conduct inside. It's not easy sometimes, but I try hard with this. I did with Prince Naseem as difficult as it was, becuase he could perform inside the ring and I did it with PBF which is also somewhat difficult.
I don't like Kahn because he is a cocky little prick who has done little to garner the right to be so....KO'd the first time he fought a dangerous fighter and the rest of his opp with a recognizable name have either all been coming in off a loss or on the down end of their careers...yet we are supposed to jump up and down and sing his praises...I think not..
Do something worth praising then I will give him his due....
I wish for an Amir Kahn Vs Juan Diaz bout to be signed.....
I can almost guarantee there will be no praising Kahn after that fight
Mundine fits the same boat.....Big shit talker who has lost every time he faced a fighter worth a nickle...Wins over Soliman and Taylor do not give the right to act like and ass....
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
HHhhmmm. If racism is a part of the anti-Kahn stuff (and I don't know that it is), thern I am now firmly in his corner. F--k rasicm--this is 2009 for God's sakes.
:foruml10gc5:
I agree there,,,Rasicm is no reason to not like a fighter...Though I am sure there are some out there who do not like Kahn due to Rasicm but I for one am not part of that crowd....
I just dislike him because of his personality
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Living in Australia I found it hard when I first got here to understand why they were never behind Mundine .Having been here for a while I do sort of get it, he courts contraversy by winding people up and goes on about not considering himself Australian because that's what the whites have created etc.
He also gloats about his position over Danny Green which further annoys the Australians as they can't appreciate that the best prospect they have had in a while is The Mouth!! or The Man as he calls himself.
Same thing as Kahn I'm sorry to say, a lot of the negative is racial, although from that point Mindine invites it and usually initiates it.
(Appreciate in both cases some just don't like them)
Apart from racism Kahn has gotten a bit up himself, but he was only a kid when he started and when the 'important' people start to tell you you're the best then you go with it.Then the press and public get a dislike for you and the Warrens take a back seat and say don't get ahead of yourself son when they started it !!
Let's give Kahn a break, admire what he can or might be able to do in the ring, and support him even grudgingly for doing what most of us wouldn't have the bottle to do. We did it with Naseem, Eubank etc so cut him some slack.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
I don't like Kahn because he is a cocky little prick who has done little to garner the right to be so....KO'd the first time he fought a dangerous fighter and the rest of his opp with a recognizable name have either all been coming in off a loss or on the down end of their careers...yet we are supposed to jump up and down and sing his praises...I think not..
Do something worth praising then I will give him his due....
I wish for an Amir Kahn Vs Juan Diaz bout to be signed.....
I can almost guarantee there will be no praising Kahn after that fight
Mundine fits the same boat.....Big shit talker who has lost every time he faced a fighter worth a nickle...Wins over Soliman and Taylor do not give the right to act like and ass....
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
It simple saddo economics
cotto pre-margarito = the best welterweight of the last 10-15 years and pound4pound number 1
Cotto post-margarito = washed up has been who should now consider retirement as he is clearly past his best
Some people on here are almost as fickle as the promoters themselves :rolleyes:
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
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Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
It simple saddo economics
cotto pre-margarito = the best welterweight of the last 10-15 years and pound4pound number 1
Cotto post-margarito = washed up has been who should now consider retirement as he is clearly past his best
Some people on here are almost as fickle as the promoters themselves :rolleyes:
holmcall is not one of those guys, he's forgotten more boxing than you or I have seen. Whilst I don't think Diaz is done, he's not one of those people who goes from one extreme to the other.
With your Cotto assessment, I didn't know he was considered P4P number 1, he was at best top 5 for me, pre-Margarito, and that fight was his major test in many eyes before moving into the elite. Anyone saying he was the best welterweight of the past 15 years, obviously hadn't seen the likes of Trinidad, prime ODLH, prime Mosley etc. Cotto is one hell of a fighter, but I always suspected that either a defensive technician or someone who bullied him back would get the better of him. This doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic fighter, just that he has exploitable weaknesses like any fighter
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
I don't like Kahn because he is a cocky little prick who has done little to garner the right to be so....KO'd the first time he fought a dangerous fighter and the rest of his opp with a recognizable name have either all been coming in off a loss or on the down end of their careers...yet we are supposed to jump up and down and sing his praises...I think not..
Do something worth praising then I will give him his due....
I wish for an Amir Kahn Vs Juan Diaz bout to be signed.....
I can almost guarantee there will be no praising Kahn after that fight
Mundine fits the same boat.....Big shit talker who has lost every time he faced a fighter worth a nickle...Wins over Soliman and Taylor do not give the right to act like and ass....
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
The kid has not really reached his potential...even if he goes no further it would be because he was thrown in before he should have been with the big dogs....
I stated this on other nthreads about Diaz and that is for the first 5 rounds he is a dangerous fighter....vERY DANGEROUS........
Kahnwill be cushioned to a world title but the key word is cushioned...nothing as of this date has proven otherwise......
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hattonthehammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
It simple saddo economics
cotto pre-margarito = the best welterweight of the last 10-15 years and pound4pound number 1
Cotto post-margarito = washed up has been who should now consider retirement as he is clearly past his best
Some people on here are almost as fickle as the promoters themselves :rolleyes:
Show me one post where a respected member has stated that.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
The kid has not really reached his potential...even if he goes no further it would be because he was thrown in before he should have been with the big dogs....
I stated this on other nthreads about Diaz and that is for the first 5 rounds he is a dangerous fighter....vERY DANGEROUS........
Kahnwill be cushioned to a world title but the key word is cushioned...nothing as of this date has proven otherwise......
Diaz needs to get that law degree. I don't see all that many great boxing paydays for him out there though he is verypopular in Houston. Lacking KO power, he always had to break his men down, and in the process, he ate a lot of punches. His ring age now exceeds his chronolgical one. Like I said, I think he is all done. Oh, he might win a confidence builder next time around, but it will only prolong the inevitable. Too bad, because I always liked him and was ringside for his great win over Popo.
Meanwhile, Kahn can now pick and choose and if his management team is smart, they will have him win a couple of tough ones before the rematch with Bredis--which he will win IMO. Agianst Kid Dracula, I was not all that impressed by Prescott.
Time will tell.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Diaz is all done. Kahn would ice him. Agree, however, with many of your thoughts about Mundine.
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.
Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.
I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).
I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.
To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out against a mediocre fighter with overrated power. Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Juan Diaz vs. Amir Khan will be an interesting fight between 2 young boxers... And we can see if a pillow punch can break a glass jaw...
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Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DaxxKahn
Diaz done???? Why because of the loss to JMM?...Kahn is no JMM...Not Even close to being a JM.......
The Diaz that hunted Marquez down for 5+ rounds is as dangerous as they come....Kahns chin would crush up like a recyclable can lets be serious...
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.
Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.
I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).
I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.
To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out against a mediocre fighter with overrated power. Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.
I think Diaz vs Khan is a great fight. I don't think either fighter is a shoe in to dominate the other.
Both are great fighters with some tremendous assets and both have weaknesses.
I have to be honest I think Khan could pull it off. Diaz is a relentless puncher but he's not a big puncher, Khan's problem will be when he gets caught by huge shots and Diaz can't do that.
When you look at the size of Amir and his speed, plus his improved defense I really don't think Diaz would find it easy to get inside and unload his combinations.
Khan is exceptionally fast, as is Diaz but Khan is much bigger and has a longer reach. If he keeps Diaz on the end of it and gets his punches off (and Diaz certainly gets hit) I think there's as much chance of Khan stopping Diaz as the other way around.
It's also entirely possible that we have seen the best of Juan Diaz. When a fight gets systematically broken down the blueprint for their demise is already laid out. Against a strong, tough, big punching fighter Diaz is always going to be defeated from now on imo, just like Zab Judah, Edison Miranda, Fernando Vargas etc.
I wouldn't put Khan in with him yet, I'd give him Murray and Katsidis first but if he gets through those fights I think if they did meet Khan would start the betting favourite.
Let's remember that Diaz only fights at lightweight because he's a chunky little fucker after all. If he got into shape he'd probably be fighting at featherweight.
Re: Why so much hate for Kahn (and Mundine)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
holmcall
He took a beat down from Campbell and got hit was some serious stuff from Katsidis. Then he imploded against JMM. That adds up to a lot of ring wear and tear for me. Moreover, once he gets cut, he can't deal with it and stops the in-coming pressure. I believe (and it's only my point of view) that Juan had peaked and is on the downside. Kahn is on the upside. When those two elevators meet, I always go for the guy moving North. All in my opinion, of course, because these exchanges are subjective points of view.
I really couldn't disagree more. Campbell beat him, no doubt, but it was a close fight early on and it (much like the JMM fight) has the potential to be one of those losses in which a young fighter learns and benefits more from it than he would a victory. Katsidis couldn't land anything of significance on Diaz, he was totally outclassed and the judge who scored the fight for the Aussie should have been immediately dragged behind the arena and summarily executed.
Diaz is 25 years old, and with Marquez and Campbell moving up is still the best lightweight in the world. He gave Marquez all kind of problems in their fight, most people had him sweeping the early rounds and he clearly hurt Marquez a couple of times. That's the same Marquez who is widely considered on par with the best fighter in the world.
I'm not even a huge Diaz fan, I was cheering against him in each of his last three fights (though he really won me over with his performance against Marquez).
I geniunely believe that if he had serious power he would one day be a fixture in the top 5 p4p.
To say he is on the slide is ridiuclous, he's been beating by one great fighter and stopped by one all time great fighter (who he was neck and neck with until the stoppage). Khan, who I like, has been badly hurt numerous times and was brutally knocked out against a mediocre fighter with overrated power. Juan Diaz would absolutely ruin Khan.
I think Diaz vs Khan is a great fight. I don't think either fighter is a shoe in to dominate the other.
Both are great fighters with some tremendous assets and both have weaknesses.
I have to be honest I think Khan could pull it off. Diaz is a relentless puncher but he's not a big puncher, Khan's problem will be when he gets caught by huge shots and Diaz can't do that.
When you look at the size of Amir and his speed, plus his improved defense I really don't think Diaz would find it easy to get inside and unload his combinations.
Khan is exceptionally fast, as is Diaz but Khan is much bigger and has a longer reach. If he keeps Diaz on the end of it and gets his punches off (and Diaz certainly gets hit) I think there's as much chance of Khan stopping Diaz as the other way around.
It's also entirely possible that we have seen the best of Juan Diaz. When a fight gets systematically broken down the blueprint for their demise is already laid out. Against a strong, tough, big punching fighter Diaz is always going to be defeated from now on imo, just like Zab Judah, Edison Miranda, Fernando Vargas etc.
I wouldn't put Khan in with him yet, I'd give him Murray and Katsidis first but if he gets through those fights I think if they did meet Khan would start the betting favourite.
Let's remember that Diaz only fights at lightweight because he's a chunky little fucker after all. If he got into shape he'd probably be fighting at featherweight.
Diaz is far from a murderous puncher, but he can punch a bit. Khan has been hurt by fighters who hit with less power than Diaz. Until Khan proves a fuck of a lot more than he already has, I'll take Diaz every day of the week. Diaz is a relentless fighter with good speed, underrated defense, and a solid chin.
You say the blueprint has been layed out, but Cambell and Marquez beat him two different ways. Campbell stood inside with Diaz, punished his body and bullyed him. Marquez ate a ton of leather while counter-punching. They both hammered his body, but that's hardly a blueprint. Those are two of the best fighters in the world and they're far superior to anyone currently at lightweight.
Khan might beat Diaz, he's got all the physical tools, but until he proves he can properly utilize then against opponents who are of the same class as Diaz, I will heavily favor Diaz.
