And used to think L Holmes was a jerk BEFORE this week

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

For me it's always been hard to separate the man from the boxer. I know Holmes was a good boxer. I don't think anybody argues that. But as someone mentioned... he didn't have the classic, career-making opponents that Ali did. And as yet another poster said, as a former HW champ, he shouldn't speak that way about a fellow former HW champ. So to me, Larry Holmes will always be the bitter old jerk I've always perceived him to be. And of Tyson's KO wins, none have made me happier than the one over Holmes.

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he had plenty of big names
Ken Norton
Earnie Shavers
Ossie Ocasio
Mike Weaver
Trevor Berbick
Leon Spinks
Tim Witherspoon
Michael Spinks (two time robbery)

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Originally Posted by Master

Holmes was never as good as Ali, he needs to accept that. Technically Ali was poor but he was great in all the other ways, heart, chin, stamina and classic opposition.

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Taking away the classic opposition because he clearly can't compete with Muhammad Ali's competition. But in all the other area's he showed as much Heart, Chin, Stamina, as Muhammad Ali did.

Check out his fights against Earnie Shavers 2, Renaldo Snipes, Ken Norton, Mike Weaver, ETC. For a mixture of all those things you mentioned there, Chin, Heart, Stamina.

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Originally Posted by Majesty

seriously if boxing was all about technique.

Lets all follow Larry Holmes and be robots that fight the same way.

Ali used to beat him up in sparring in his mid age years, so how Larry could call him overrated is beyond me

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A robot that fights the sameway are you kidding me seriously ? Larry Holmes relied on the jab alot but he could also brawl which he showed in many fights, he could also use movement very well like Muhammad Ali, and he could be the aggressor.

And he was a very good athletic Heavyweight, i think you need to watch more Larry Holmes fights before you make a comment like that again. And lastly Larry Holmes was a novice when he sparred with Muhammad Ali in 1972, he wasn't even a pro yet i don't believe. He was half the fighter he then compared to his peak in 1978.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Majesty

seriously if boxing was all about technique.

Lets all follow Larry Holmes and be robots that fight the same way.

Ali used to beat him up in sparring in his mid age years, so how Larry could call him overrated is beyond me

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A robot that fights the sameway are you kidding me seriously ? Larry Holmes relied on the jab alot but he could also brawl which he showed in many fights, he could also use movement very well like Muhammad Ali, and he could be the aggressor.

And he was a very good athletic Heavyweight, i think you need to watch more Larry Holmes fights before you make a comment like that again. And lastly Larry Holmes was a novice when he sparred with Muhammad Ali in 1972, he wasn't even a pro yet i don't believe. He was half the fighter he then compared to his peak in 1978.

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You do realize my comment wasn't even about Larry Holmes fighting style right?

My comment was about Holmes statement saying because of Ali's style and not using the basics that he was overrated. So I said lets all follow what he said and fight the same way. Boxing is about styles and what makes a boxer unique and just because a fighter fights with his hands down or leans back with his hands down doesnt make him overrated which is what Holmes was basically saying. Thats why i made the lets all be robots comment.

I wasn't talking about his style i was talking about how close minded his statement about Ali was.

I believe Larry Holmes to be one of the best Heavyweights ever, he is in my top 10. He carries a fairly large chip on his shoulder though and this is always evident in his interviews. He beat up on an old and tired Ali and he gets the blame for that, he had a close win against Norton but never got the chance to fight Foreman who retired prematurely before his reign. He missed the golden era of the 70's with Foreman, Frazier and Ali battling amongst themselves and then he eventually loses to Spinks who he thinks he beat twice but he loses both closely. He gets smashed by Iron Mike and that is pretty much it for Larry and i guess he feels hardly done by in the whole scheme of things.
Holmes need not worry to much, real boxing fans know he was good.
Get over it Larry and get on with life, stop whining about the past and what could have been, you were a great champion and nobody has forgotten it.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by Majesty

seriously if boxing was all about technique.

Lets all follow Larry Holmes and be robots that fight the same way.

Ali used to beat him up in sparring in his mid age years, so how Larry could call him overrated is beyond me

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A robot that fights the sameway are you kidding me seriously ? Larry Holmes relied on the jab alot but he could also brawl which he showed in many fights, he could also use movement very well like Muhammad Ali, and he could be the aggressor.

And he was a very good athletic Heavyweight, i think you need to watch more Larry Holmes fights before you make a comment like that again. And lastly Larry Holmes was a novice when he sparred with Muhammad Ali in 1972, he wasn't even a pro yet i don't believe. He was half the fighter he then compared to his peak in 1978.

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I am sure Holmes was the sparring partner for Ali when he fought Foreman.

I don't like Holmes' quote about Marciano...I can kind of understand it though. You see athletes rip the all-time greats every now and then because they know if they are on their best behavior they still might catch shit for it or get rated lower than previous athletes. Guys like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods didn't seem to struggle with their greatness. They are great without having to brag AND while showing respect and IMO that enhances their greatness. But back to Holmes, he may have had similar trouble as Hank Aaron did while trying to break Ruth's lifetime homerun record.


As for Holmes' comments about Ali, I 100% agree....but of course it'll be chalked up to me not liking Ali, but so fucking what, I don't like him but maybe I view his accomplishments in a more clear rational and reasonable manner because I don't like him.

Also on another note NOBODY (at heavyweight at least) will break Joe Louis' title defense mark

So where did you here Ali use to bash Him up in Sparring :confused:

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Originally Posted by Scrap

So where did you here Ali use to bash Him up in Sparring :confused:

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Wasn't Holmes Ali's sparring partner in the lead up to the Rumble? Didn't Ali tell him to pound him like big George?

Yes and during that time Larry WAS smashing Ali in sparring

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Yes and during that time Larry WAS smashing Ali in sparring

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I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

I believe Larry Holmes to be one of the best Heavyweights ever, he is in my top 10. He carries a fairly large chip on his shoulder though and this is always evident in his interviews. He beat up on an old and tired Ali and he gets the blame for that, he had a close win against Norton but never got the chance to fight Foreman who retired prematurely before his reign. He missed the golden era of the 70's with Foreman, Frazier and Ali battling amongst themselves and then he eventually loses to Spinks who he thinks he beat twice but he loses both closely. He gets smashed by Iron Mike and that is pretty much it for Larry and i guess he feels hardly done by in the whole scheme of things.
Holmes need not worry to much, real boxing fans know he was good.
Get over it Larry and get on with life, stop whining about the past and what could have been, you were a great champion and nobody has forgotten it.

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Good post ...... I also agree that Larry is an all time great who would have been competitive against anyone who ever lived (he may not have won them all, but he'd have gone down with all guns blazing)

Still, I can;t help thinking that if Holmes didn't have the chip on his shoulder, the nagging sense of injustice, the conspiracy theories and the ego - he would not have been half the great fighter that he was.

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Originally Posted by Master

I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

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....being able to take punches while leaning back all the way to India, hold behind the head, and flurrying from time to time doesn't (to me) constitute his best performance. It was a HUGE win but huge performance....no way! The wins over Liston, Williams, and Frazier in the rematch and the 'Thrilla' were better IMO.


Larry Holmes is also a victim of not having any great rivals

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by Master

I seriously doubt that, Holmes was not even at his peak and Ali put on one of his greatest performance against Foreman.

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....being able to take punches while leaning back all the way to India, hold behind the head, and flurrying from time to time doesn't (to me) constitute his best performance. It was a HUGE win but huge performance....no way! The wins over Liston, Williams, and Frazier in the rematch and the 'Thrilla' were better IMO.


Larry Holmes is also a victim of not having any great rivals

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It was a huge win and performance, to say otherwise is just strange.

I just wasn't impressed with it....sure Ali countered sharply and everything but he was still allowed to hold Foreman on the back of the head AND Foreman fought a dumb fight, that is as plain as day....whereas Liston and Williams were at Ali's mercy and he just demolished them with speed and skill.

Foreman's win over Frazier is still the most spectacular fight of that era IMO.....to rain down bombs like that on a guy who was undefeated and just beat the previously undefeated Ali still boggles my mind.