P4P King?

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Makes perfect sense to me.

Anyone that currently rates Marquez as no.1 has no reason to remove him from the top spot if Pac beats Hatton.

Pac beating Hatton means Pac beat Hatton. It doesn't mean Pac can now beat Marquez. The only way Pac can rate above Marquez is if he beats him. Until then, whatever Pac does, as long as Marquez remains unbeaten, he will have to stay behind Marquez.

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Pac has already beaten Marquez twice. The first one was supposed to be for pac had one of the judges not committed an error. Funny that they did not change the result even though the judge admitted the error. UNOFFICIALLY, Pac won against MArquez.

Second was very close but Pac had the nod of the judges so,OFFICIALLY, Pac is P4P #1.:cool::cool::cool:

No debate here.

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Yes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.

But P4P is mythical nonsense.

We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.

In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?

So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)

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But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.

Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.

by this time next month marquez will be p4p king with hatton and manny tussling over the 2nd spot!!

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by brucelee

Pac has already beaten Marquez twice. The first one was supposed to be for pac had one of the judges not committed an error. Funny that they did not change the result even though the judge admitted the error. UNOFFICIALLY, Pac won against MArquez.

Second was very close but Pac had the nod of the judges so,OFFICIALLY, Pac is P4P #1.:cool::cool::cool:

No debate here.

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Yes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.

But P4P is mythical nonsense.

We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.

In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?

So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)

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But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.

Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.

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I don't believe such a thing exists?

The Ring's list is just as crazed as Fensters.

I'll recognise the Saddo rankings even though they are clearly wrong. My list is the only correct one.. as any knowledgeable boxing person will agree. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Yes Pac officially has a draw and a win over Marquez. Going by official results it's fair to rate Pac higher.

But P4P is mythical nonsense.

We don't need to guess the outcome should these two fight. We have evidence of them fighting in their pomp in their best weight divisions.

In my view Marquez beat Pac twice. How can I rate a fighter higher P4P over a guy that has beaten him in TWO different weight divisons?

So in the mythical nonsense that is pound-for-pound - Marquez MUST rate higher than Pac. ;)

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But as long as you agree that this is just the mythical crazed Fenster/CutMeMick p4p rankings and not the Ring and officially recognised proper p4p rankings the its all well and good.

Of course Marquez still needs to beat Valero, the real linear champ and the man at 135.

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I don't believe such a thing exists?

The Ring's list is just as crazed as Fensters.

I'll recognise the Saddo rankings even though they are clearly wrong. My list is the only correct one.. as any knowledgeable boxing person will agree. Fact.

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i`ll second that fenst......







you are the guy that has david haye at #4 arent you



;D;D;D

No I don't have Haye at 4.

I can probably make a case for him though. ;D

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

P4P lists are like assholes, everyones got one.

It all boils down to you what you think it should be. If you like what the Ring Mag. will do then so be it.
If not then compile your own list and stick to it.

Taeth,
After Taylor beat Hopkins twice I saw many people placing Hop still as #1 because they felt Taylor didn't beat him. Which is reasonable if you can back it up.

I have JMM as #1 and I can back it up why I think he should be #1.
I've had him beating Pac twice by a close margins bothe times and I feel that his reign as a Lightweight is much more impressive then fighting David Diaz and ODLH.

With that being said if Pac beats Hatton (which I think he will) then trust me it WILL def. make Pac #1 with no questions asked from me. But again that's just me their might be someone out there who might still think that beating Hatton is not enough. When he comes around if you find him let me know so we can rip him to shreds together cause that would be absurd.

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Why because he fought an old Casamayor who went life and death with Katsidis, then beat Juan Diaz who already lost to Nate Campbell? If Juan fights Valero or Guzman, I will give him all the credit in the world, but fighting really close fights with Diaz and Casamayor as good as both fights looked doesn't ring of p4p #1 to me. These are guys a p4p#1 should be beating handily, maybe not dominating, but clearly imposing their will for the majority of the fight.

Can you give me the rounds you gave to Marquez in the Second Pacquiao fight?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Thing is though if you insist on putting Marquez (or Hopkins after the Taylor defeats) at number 1 then you have to remove yourself from boxing reality.

Just because you personally thought a fight went the other way doesn't mean that the result is open to interperation. It's not, the result of a fight is final, its in the books and that's that whether you were happy with the decision or not.

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Which is why the first words in my post were;
"P4P lists are like assholes, everyones got one"
What is reality in boxing? I see reality in boxing through my own judgement. I will take a page here and there but not in it's entirety.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

To follow your own logic Juan Manuel Marquez isn't even a world champion at lightweight (unless you count a vacant wbo strap) as Casamayor was clearly not the linear champ Armando Santo Cruz was.

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OK, that's logical and reasonable.
However at no point did I mention him being a world champion.
My comment was;
"I feel that his reign as a Lightweight is much more impressive then fighting David Diaz and ODLH."

Along with having him beating Pac it puts him as #1 in my books.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Edwin Valero is the true linear lightweight world champion as Pitalua took the crown from Santa Cruz and Valero destroyed Pitalua.

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Here's where the "Reality" part of boxing get's hazy.
Santa Cruz vs. Pitalua was for the WBC strap.
Would Pitalua have been rated #1,2 or the next top rated available Lightweight by the Ring then yes you would be correct but he wasn't.
So the lineage was lost somewhere along the lines.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Hope this clears everything up.

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Actually I hope I've brought the reality part of boxing to light here.

Taeth I'm looking for my scorecard so don't think I'm ignoring you...