Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
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Originally Posted by
ICB
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Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
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Originally Posted by
ICB
Ricardo Lopez
Salvador Sanchez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
James Toney
Larry Holmes
Alexis Arguello
Are some that come to mind.
I agree on the first 3.
However, Jones lacked the urge to finish fights when he could have at times, & I think that means he can't be.
Toney has all the natural physical abilities to be a perfect fighter but his lack of interest in conditioning & so on means he loses out for me.
Holmes is close, although I'm sceptical whether his handspeed was good enough to make him 'perfect'.
Arguello I agree on.
Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.
Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I agree on the first 3.
However, Jones lacked the urge to finish fights when he could have at times, & I think that means he can't be.
Toney has all the natural physical abilities to be a perfect fighter but his lack of interest in conditioning & so on means he loses out for me.
Holmes is close, although I'm sceptical whether his handspeed was good enough to make him 'perfect'.
Arguello I agree on.
Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.
Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.
But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.
All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.
Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.
But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.
All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.
Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.
But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.
All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.
Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.
To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.
Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Joe Louis and Ray Robinson old school
Bernard Hopkins is pretty damn close to perfection he just lacks power.
A prime Roy Jones was a thing of beauty.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
floyd mayweather is the perfect fighter
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.
All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.
Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.
To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.
Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.
No I can accept someone not seeing Ali as the perfect fighter, but with RJJ one thing he didn't have (I suspect at any point) was an excellent chin. Now I'm not one of these people who pretends he has a glass jaw, he didn't, but I don't think his chin was great which alone would stop him being a perfect fighter. Also too much of his prime was spent fighting guys not able to extend him. I got the impression that a Toney who actually bothered to train properly could have given him a trouble, as could a slightly more experienced Hopkins. He would have beaten Calzaghe at any point till he went to HW though. Fact.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
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Originally Posted by
Violent Demise
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Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
I don't think he had great one punch power, but he was able to break a lot of guys down over a fight, so I'd give him it on that basis.
A perfect fighter needs to have one punch power. So that would eliminate Ali
I don't think Salvador Sanchez had great one punch power, although it was better than Ali's, he tended to break guys down systematically in most of his fights.
Michael Spinks was a pretty complete fighter at LHW. I disagree with Duran though. For me a perfect fighter never does what he does in his 2nd fight with Leonard.
I don't think a "perfect fighter" needs one punch power--just solid power.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
what about Hagler? i know hes not the perfect but he damn near had it all.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Mayweather.....guy has it all except maybe brute one punch ko power; though he was sparking guys out in his earlier, lower weight days. Speed, intelligence, can hit you anywhere, anytime, with anything he likes; about the best defense I've seen; seen him take a couple to the chin and smile about it so good chin, adapts to any opponent with ease{which imo makes one truly elite}. Guy's got it all but is a cock.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Floyd Mayweather Jr. He is the closest to being one he seems to be a fighter that can fight any way he wants. I'll never forget how he fought all those rounds with Hatton one way and then actually started using a jab in the latter rounds almost as if to prove he could and was deadly accurate with that too.
Mayweather has it all, power, chin, boxing ability, jab, speed, defense. People just dont like the "money mayweather' Character that he uses to sell fights. But he worked hard to gain the right to brag
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
My definition of a "perfect fighter" a guy who can punch but can also box, can take punishment and avoid punishment...a well rounded fighter that is gifted in all fields.
My personal list:
Roberto Duran
Joe Louis
Ray Robinson
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
My definition of a "perfect fighter" a guy who can punch but can also box, can take punishment and avoid punishment...a well rounded fighter that is gifted in all fields.
My personal list:
Roberto Duran
Joe Louis
Ray Robinson
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Going by that definition then I would have to go with Marvin Hagler. Chin, heart, power, brawler, boxer-puncher, great defense (which was underrated) , the hand speed wasn't amazing other than that he had it all imo.
Re: Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JazMerkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.
All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.
Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.
To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.
Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.
agree, i like roy. if he had good whiskers he'd be a perfect fighter.
