Who comes close to being a "perfect fighter?"

[JazMerkin]

Ricardo Lopez
Salvador Sanchez
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Roy Jones Jr
James Toney
Larry Holmes
Alexis Arguello

Are some that come to mind.

I agree on the first 3.

However, Jones lacked the urge to finish fights when he could have at times, & I think that means he can't be.

Toney has all the natural physical abilities to be a perfect fighter but his lack of interest in conditioning & so on means he loses out for me.

Holmes is close, although I'm sceptical whether his handspeed was good enough to make him 'perfect'.

Arguello I agree on.

Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.

Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.

[ICB]

I agree on the first 3.

However, Jones lacked the urge to finish fights when he could have at times, & I think that means he can't be.

Toney has all the natural physical abilities to be a perfect fighter but his lack of interest in conditioning & so on means he loses out for me.

Holmes is close, although I'm sceptical whether his handspeed was good enough to make him 'perfect'.

Arguello I agree on.

Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.

Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

[JazMerkin]

Im actually on about on there best night Jaz, like the James Toney that took apart Iran Barkley. Or the Roy Jones Jr that would destroy fighters, before the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McClellan incident. Or the Larry Holmes that took apart Earnie Shavers in there first fight, i think Larry Holmes is easily in top 10 for the fastest Heavyweights of all time.

Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.

[ICB]

Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.

To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.

Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.

[jon09]

Joe Louis and Ray Robinson old school

Bernard Hopkins is pretty damn close to perfection he just lacks power.

A prime Roy Jones was a thing of beauty.

[eleven]

floyd mayweather is the perfect fighter

[holmcall]

Joe Louis and Ray Robinson old school

Bernard Hopkins is pretty damn close to perfection he just lacks power.

A prime Roy Jones was a thing of beauty.

Good old school picks. Gypse Joe Harris was very good.

[JazMerkin]

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.

To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.

Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.

No I can accept someone not seeing Ali as the perfect fighter, but with RJJ one thing he didn't have (I suspect at any point) was an excellent chin. Now I'm not one of these people who pretends he has a glass jaw, he didn't, but I don't think his chin was great which alone would stop him being a perfect fighter. Also too much of his prime was spent fighting guys not able to extend him. I got the impression that a Toney who actually bothered to train properly could have given him a trouble, as could a slightly more experienced Hopkins. He would have beaten Calzaghe at any point till he went to HW though. Fact.

[KKisser]

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.

To be honest though i think RJJ looked more unbeatable, than Muhammad Ali ever did. I mean to win even 4 rounds against a prime RJJ. Was considered an achievement, i mean he only ever struggled against Eric Harding, Montel Griffin 1, in his prime.

Where as Muhammad Ali had a bunch of struggles, he had many controversial decisions and struggles against mediocre fighters. I don't see why you call Muhammad Ali an almost perfect fighter but not RJJ, there pretty similar with how they relied alot on there athletic ability, except RJJ hit harder.

agree, i like roy. if he had good whiskers he'd be a perfect fighter.

[Kev]

The closest thing to a perfect fighter is Carl 'The Cobra' Froch.

It's true that his defense is lacking but when you have an indestructable chin and body, wasting time taking defensive action only detracts, much like a sprinter would be foolishly wasting time if he was checking that there was solid ground beneath his feet before each step.

A defense is only necessary when your opponent can hurt you, we don't wear crash helmets when we go outside to protect us from flies, simply not necessary.

So, in conclusion, yes the most perfect fighter is Carl 'The Cobra' Froch.

[Violent Demise]

The closest thing to a perfect fighter is Carl 'The Cobra' Froch.

It's true that his defense is lacking but when you have an indestructable chin and body, wasting time taking defensive action only detracts, much like a sprinter would be foolishly wasting time if he was checking that there was solid ground beneath his feet before each step.

A defense is only necessary when your opponent can hurt you, we don't wear crash helmets when we go outside to protect us from flies, simply not necessary.

So, in conclusion, yes the most perfect fighter is Carl 'The Cobra' Froch.

Stop on your screen again. Thread says perfect fighter. Not crappiest

[milmascaras1]

for me it's got to be sugar ray leonard followed by a lightweight sugar shane mosley. i never saw sugar ray robinson fight but i'm guessing he was something of a complete fighter too!

[Pugilistic]

Hopkins deserves a mention imo.

Hopkins in his prime could fight on the backfoot or coming forward, on the inside and on the ropes. Hopkins was effective at any punching range.

He had a solid jab when he used it, quick sneaky right hand, he could punch to the body and was good at putting punches together. His footwork and defense is some of the best i have seen ever.

Hopkins also had good power which was an underated part of his game, his handspeed was always underated also, his stamina was top notch and he could take a good punch when he had to.

[Jimanuel Boogustus]

Hopkins deserves a mention imo.

Hopkins in his prime could fight on the backfoot or coming forward, on the inside and on the ropes. Hopkins was effective at any punching range.

He had a solid jab when he used it, quick sneaky right hand, he could punch to the body and was good at putting punches together. His footwork and defense is some of the best i have seen ever.

Hopkins also had good power which was an underated part of his game, his handspeed was always underated also, his stamina was top notch and he could take a good punch when he had to.

Yeah to be able to do it all for 20 years and never really be athletically gifted, never really blessed in the speed or power department and stay virtually unscathed is unbelievable!

I think Bernard Hopkins is one of those guys who i rate more as time goes by

[holmcall]

Yeah, but you said in the previous post that they could have off-nights. I know you're a fan of all those fighters but the fact is looking at their careers, even their primes, those are all deficiencies they have. I don't think Holmes had great handspeed, he had fantastic punch accuracy which I think made up for it, but I really don't think he had great handspeed.

But if we are basing it on that, then no fighter can be close to a perfect fighter then. Because even Salvador Sanchez had off nights, in two very close decision wins against Pat Cowdell, Patrick Ford.

All great fighters have off nights, some more so than others. But thats why when we have threads like this. I like to think of there greatest performance, where they looked unbeatable.

Yes, but then Ali had nights, like against Foreman or Patterson that he looked like a perfect fighter. In fact many a fighter could be perfect if you base it on their best nights. It should be at least over the basis of passage of time. In that case, none of those fighters are 'perfect'. Roy Jones Jr was an incredible fighter, but not perfect, the same with the other guys. Toney particularly had all the natural ingredients to be an ATG of the highest calibre, but he lacked the attitude to make the best of what he had.

Sanchez and Jofre sustained their greatness for a lengthy period of time. Ali did not IMO.