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[quote=JonesJrMayweather;766447][quote=Dark Lord Al;766420]You're right it is an uncommon adjective for a man as its mostly reserved men with perhaps too much estrogen in their blood. Such as yourself. Trailer/park projects...that's original.[/quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Also true .
OK guys I have finally gotten around to coming up with some more hypothetical fights that are seemingly 50/50. This list isn't as good as the first, but I felt I had to come up with more than just 1-2 fights
Aaron Pryor - Pernell Whittaker 140: Pryor was a non-stop action fighter, he was always throwing punches and he had a great chin, but Sweet Pea was THE slickest fighter since Willie Pep.
Oscar De la Hoya - Vernon Forrest 147: This fight always intrigued me not only because Forrest had such an easy time with Shane Mosley but also because Oscar and Vernon were on the same Olympic team. I think when Oscar was allowed to load up on his shots a bit more and punches weren't coming back at him in flurries he was more successful. Vernon fought from distance very well and had a dynamic right cross before the shoulder injury.
Floyd Patterson-Bob Foster 175: This fight pits two styles against each other where the outcomes can vary greatly in Foster's favor you can cite Tyson-Douglas & Tyson-Lewis and in Patterson's favor you can look at Tyson-Tucker & Tyson-Biggs or any number of taller fighters. Both Patterson and Foster had great handspeed and power, but their chins left a lot to be desired.
Frank Bruno - Donovan Ruddock: Two big heavy punchers who either didn't know how to act when they were hurt or just lost all sense when they got hurt. Bruno had the big right hand and Rudduck had the left 45 (hook/uppercut hybrid). In their respective primes I think they would have had a back and forth fight because they had the same strengths and the same weaknesses.
Aaron Pryor - Pernell Whittaker 140: Pernell PTS
Oscar De la Hoya - Vernon Forrest 147: ODH PTS
Floyd Patterson-Bob Foster 175: Tough - Foster.
Frank Bruno - Donovan Ruddock: Ruddock KO9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Thomas Hearns vs Shane Mosley = Shane Mosley lost to Vernon Forrest, who basically beat him because of his height and jab. And no disrespect to Vernon Forrest, but Thomas Hearns was obviously better than Vernon Forrest.
And he would of beat Shane Mosley on points comfortably the same way Vernon Forrest did. Or stopped him early like Vernon Forrest almost did.
Salvador Sanchez vs Julio Cesar Chavez = This is a tough one because JCC was better, at the lower weightclasses. But i still feel he would struggle with a great boxer like Salvador Sanchez.
But i feel we never see the best of Salvador Sanchez, but he did do well against aggressive fighters. But JCC was a class above anyone Salvador Sanchez fought, i'll call it a draw.
Mike Tyson vs Riddick Bowe = Can i just say Lyle that Tony Tucker, broke his right hand after the 4th round, thats the reason he went into a defensive shell. Tony Tucker may of actually won that night, but we will never know.
Riddick Bowe struggled against fighters, with good jabs or boxers who fought him on the outside. But fighters that come to him he was in his element.
Mike Tyson never fought anyone close to someone like Riddick Bowe, in his prime that had the size and the inside fighting skills. I'd say Riddick Bowe by TKO late on.
Roberto Duran vs Alexis Arguello = Now Alexis Arguello did have some troubles against Southpaws, and he also struggled against good boxers. He was outboxed by Jose Luis Ramirez clearly at 135, but he loved fighters that come towards him.
Now as for Roberto Duran he himself had trouble with boxers, but i think he had a few more tools than Alexis Arguello. Now it would infact be in Roberto Duran's interest to box against Alexis Arguello amazingly.
Now you all think im crazy, but Alexis Arguello hits very hard. And he loved fighters that come towards him, and as tough as Roberto Duran is, i just don't like the thought of him taking those long Alexis Arguello right hands. At mid-distance as he's trying to come in.
I think Roberto Duran wins on points after being floored and hurt early, he begins to box and he out smarts Alexis Arguello in a closish UD.
Aaron Pryor - Pernell Whittaker 140:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Pernell Whitaker by UD he had no trouble with aggressive fighters, and Aaron Pryor almost lost to a slick Southpaw in Gary Hinton. Watch that fight i think thats a good fight to view, on how a fight between Pernell Whitaker/Aaron Pryor would of gone, except Pernell Whitaker would win unlike Gary Hinton.
Oscar De la Hoya - Vernon Forrest 147:
Now suprisingly i like Vernon Forrest in this fight, ODLH did at times struggle against a good jabber, and Vernon Forrest may of had the attributes to pull off a UD. Unless its a BS decision which is probably what would of happened.
Floyd Patterson-Bob Foster 175:
I've seen plenty of Bob Foster, but i have seen very little of Floyd Patterson at 175, so i can't comment.
Frank Bruno - Donovan Ruddock:
Frank Bruno has the tools to outbox Razor Ruddock, but Razor Ruddock has better survival instincts than Frank Bruno. And that would be the difference in the fight. Razor Ruddock may of been outboxed and floored, but in the end his extra mental toughness and survival instincts, would pull through and he would win a TKO round about the 8th round.
Alexis Arguello didn't have the pop to keep Roberto Duran off ? are you kidding me ? Alexis Arguello was a great puncher who still hit very hard at Lightweight, and it would be the hardest puncher Roberto Duran fought at Lightweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlTommy Hearns v Shane Mosley - both top fighters but if Mosley gets floored by Vern Forrest , and struggles with Oscar's jab , then the HITMAN knocks him out inside 4 rounds for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Hearns KO4
Sanchez v JC Chavez - both amazing fighters but over 15 rounds i give it to Sanchez , as he is slightly more adaptable as a fighter than Chavez.
Sanchez split points 15
Bowe v Tyson - Bowes chin lets him down in this one , Tyson chops him down inside 2 rounds.
Tyson TKO 2
Duran v Arguello - An interesting fight indeed , but i would lean towards Duran to score a TKO in about round 12-13.
Duran TKO 13.
(1) Shane suffered a concussion from the headbutt sustained moments before he was caught with a nice right hand by vernon, and still managed to avoid being stopped. Only been down once in his career, only seriously hurt that one time as well against 50 pro fights with a who's who's of his generation. NEVER BEEN STOPPED.
Hearns stopped by barkley,SRL, and hagler. Knocked down a hand full of times. Yet somehow he would manage to stop SHANE??????
At 147 Shane puts hearns to sleep late by crowding and over powering him all night. That's the not even prime shane. The shane that fought Oscar in the first fight would destroy any version of hearns.
(2) Bowe who has never been stopped, out fought evander twice. (which probably shortened his career) against tyson who only came to fight when he knew his opponent was beaten before the fight. He lost to everyone from his generation. KO'ed in his prime against douglass. Probably the most overrated heavy of all time. Would lose a UD to Bowe.
as far as the others..
I take JCC over sanchez
and duran over arguello...Alexis didn't have the pop to keep duran off of him and would have been stopped late.
Hearns clear UD
Sanchez close decision
Bowe TKO
Duran closeish decision.
Alexis had pop, but duran was too strong down there, just like shane. Not to mention duran was faster at that weight, not faster than alexis but duran's skillset was maxed at lightweight, he took shots from legitimate WWs and MWs, arguello was stopped twice by a JMW...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBAlexis Arguello didn't have the pop to keep Roberto Duran off ? are you kidding me ? Alexis Arguello was a great puncher who still hit very hard at Lightweight, and it would be the hardest puncher Roberto Duran fought at Lightweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
(1) Shane suffered a concussion from the headbutt sustained moments before he was caught with a nice right hand by vernon, and still managed to avoid being stopped. Only been down once in his career, only seriously hurt that one time as well against 50 pro fights with a who's who's of his generation. NEVER BEEN STOPPED.
Hearns stopped by barkley,SRL, and hagler. Knocked down a hand full of times. Yet somehow he would manage to stop SHANE??????
At 147 Shane puts hearns to sleep late by crowding and over powering him all night. That's the not even prime shane. The shane that fought Oscar in the first fight would destroy any version of hearns.
(2) Bowe who has never been stopped, out fought evander twice. (which probably shortened his career) against tyson who only came to fight when he knew his opponent was beaten before the fight. He lost to everyone from his generation. KO'ed in his prime against douglass. Probably the most overrated heavy of all time. Would lose a UD to Bowe.
as far as the others..
I take JCC over sanchez
and duran over arguello...Alexis didn't have the pop to keep duran off of him and would have been stopped late.
Alexis Arguello was past his prime against Aaron Pryor, we are talking about a prime Alexis Arguello here. And Aaron Pryor's 1st win over Alexis Arguello is tainted.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAlexis had pop, but duran was too strong down there, just like shane. Not to mention duran was faster at that weight, not faster than alexis but duran's skillset was maxed at lightweight, he took shots from legitimate WWs and MWs, arguello was stopped twice by a JMW...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBAlexis Arguello didn't have the pop to keep Roberto Duran off ? are you kidding me ? Alexis Arguello was a great puncher who still hit very hard at Lightweight, and it would be the hardest puncher Roberto Duran fought at Lightweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
Because Alexis Arguello seemed to be coming on, in the later rounds like he often did. Until Aaron Pryor had the mysterious black bottle, which gave him energy.
And secondly that has nothing to do with a match up, between Alexis Arguello/Roberto Duran at Lightweight. Also just because Roberto Duran moved up in weight, and took some good punches.
Doesn't mean Alexis Arguello couldn't hurt him, or possibly stop him. Remember Roberto Duran was dropped like a sack twice, against Esteban De Jesus at Lightweight who isn't that big of a puncher.
Plus Alexis Arguello has a big reach and height advantage, so he could catch Roberto Duran coming in at mid-distance where he done his best work. With his perfect straight right hands which could knockdown a brickwall.
Alexis Arguello loved fighters that come towards him, which is why after Roberto Duran gets hurt early by Alexis Arguello. He would box smart and win a closish decision IMO.
Im not saying Roberto Duran would lose, all im saying is that he couldn't just come forward walking through Alexis Arguello's, best punches especially with Alexis Arguello's big reach advantage. Plus he hits too hard and Roberto Duran would of found that out very early.
So who do you rate higher at LW all time Alexis or duran?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBAlexis Arguello was past his prime against Aaron Pryor, we are talking about a prime Alexis Arguello here. And Aaron Pryor's 1st win over Alexis Arguello is tainted.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweatherAlexis had pop, but duran was too strong down there, just like shane. Not to mention duran was faster at that weight, not faster than alexis but duran's skillset was maxed at lightweight, he took shots from legitimate WWs and MWs, arguello was stopped twice by a JMW...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Because Alexis Arguello seemed to be coming on, in the later rounds like he often did. Until Aaron Pryor had the mysterious black bottle, which gave him energy.
And secondly that has nothing to do with a match up, between Alexis Arguello/Roberto Duran at Lightweight. Also just because Roberto Duran moved up in weight, and took some good punches.
Doesn't mean Alexis Arguello couldn't hurt him, or possibly stop him. Remember Roberto Duran was dropped like a sack twice, against Esteban De Jesus at Lightweight who isn't that big of a puncher.
Plus Alexis Arguello has a big reach and height advantage, so he could catch Roberto Duran coming in at mid-distance where he done his best work. With his perfect straight right hands which could knockdown a brickwall.
Alexis Arguello loved fighters that come towards him, which is why after Roberto Duran gets hurt early by Alexis Arguello. He would box smart and win a closish decision IMO.
Im not saying Roberto Duran would lose, all im saying is that he couldn't just come forward walking through Alexis Arguello's, best punches especially with Alexis Arguello's big reach advantage. Plus he hits too hard and Roberto Duran would of found that out very early.
OK I thought of a few more (I'm going to have to think of maybe 5-10 before I post another set), but keep this debate going, I like it! Every point that is made about each of these fights I tend to switch sides...you guys are doing wonderfully backing up your points as well.
OK, I hate to re-use some of the fighters I have already mentioned but here it goes.
Ken Norton - Evander Holyfield: Both big strong awkward fighters who beat THE BEST fighter(s) of their era with Norton beating Ali and Evander beating Tyson and Lewis. Norton was seemingly only bothered by HUGE punchers like Foreman, Shavers, and Cooney...Evander could punch, but not that hard. I see a battle closer than the Bowe-Holyfield fights.
Joe Fazier - Riddick Bowe: Now of course Riddick was big and strong, but he was often lazy in the ring giving up his height and reach and Joe Frazier could take a punch, in fact he could take several, and nobody had more will in their body than he did and if Evander Holyfield could drop Bowe then I think it's a forgone conclusion that Frazier's left hook could do damage to Riddick.
Jersey Joe Walcott - James Toney (190-210): Jersey Joe and Toney were very slick fighters who were defensively sound yet provided solid offense and power.
More to come later
Aaron Pryor - Pernell Whittaker 140: I think that Whitaker would just be too tricky for Pryor. Pryor had that great all-action style, but I just think that Pernell would have outboxed him similar to how he did against Chavez, so I think Whitaker comes away with a UD, not a wide one, but comfortable enough.
Oscar De la Hoya - Vernon Forrest 147: I've thought for years that had Oscar fought Forrest, he would have been comfortably beaten. I don't think that Forrest would dominate him, but his jab & cross would have been a problem for Oscar. Although given their respective statuses, I wouldn't be surprised had Oscar come away with a shocking SD victory. But ignoring that, I think Forrest did everything well enough & I think it would have looked similar to the ODLH-B-Hop fight, just without the KO, & Forrest taking the late rounds.
Floyd Patterson-Bob Foster 175: Seen nothing of Patterson at LHW, but enough of Foster & going off that, I think that Foster KO's him in the middle rounds.
Frank Bruno - Donovan Ruddock: I think Bruno was stronger physically, Ruddock mentally, but I suspect that Bruno might have been able to get to him early & after a bit of back & forth, KO him in the 6th or 7th, just before he managed to fold mentally.
Tommy Hearns-Shane Mosely 147 - I got to go with Tommy. If Shane had troubles with Forrest's size and jab he would get past Hearns.
Salvador Sanchez-Julio Cesar Chavez 130/135 - Hard to say since Sanchez only fought at 126. Close fight at 130 but at 135 I gotta go Chavez
Mike Tyson-Riddick Bowe - Prime Tyson destroys Bowe. Bowe got hit way to often in those 3 fights with Evander. Bowe beats the sloppier Tyson (post prision) easliy
Roberto Duran-Alexis Arguello 135 - Great fight but I only see Benny Leonard and Sweet Pea beating Duran at Lightweight.
Aaron Pryor - Pernell Whittaker 140 - I gotta go Sweet Pea all the way in this one.
Oscar De la Hoya - Vernon Forrest 147 - I think Vernon is a tuff out for any top Welter in the last 30 years. He's ahard style to crack but I think Oscar can do enough to beat him. Forrest had troubles with Mayorga and Oscar destroyed him.
Floyd Patterson-Bob Foster 175 - Not even close, Bob KO's "chinny chin chin" Patterson easily.
Frank Bruno - Donovan Ruddock - This will be like Lewis-Bruno. Bruno has moments but Razor gets him out of there in the late rounds.