Andrade - Bute II

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

the ibf clearly states that the fighter has to be able to continue, but i can see the ref's point in not wanting to take a win away from bute given the circumstance. It was just good luck on bute's part but bad luck on andrade's part. Since andrade got lucky enough to get a second chance, he has to finish what he started, preferably in the early rounds.

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Where do they say it?

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf

As soon as Bute's hands cleared the floor, the round (and thus the fight) were over. It says nothing about his ability to continue.

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That rule is one of the most vague in boxing. So he could just rest on his paunches & keep his hands up & he'd be up?? :cwm13:

The fight should have been stopped prior to the KD when Bute almost fell over the ropes. However, it's interesting to note the difference in timing when Andrade was 'knocked down'. If Wright had applied the same type of count, (ie fast) than Bute would have been counted out. There's a vid on youtube that shows Wright's performance throughout the fight, although I wouldn't watch if you don't want to become more disillusioned with boxing

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alright, I'm interested do you have a link to the video?

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by CFH

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Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer

the ibf clearly states that the fighter has to be able to continue, but i can see the ref's point in not wanting to take a win away from bute given the circumstance. It was just good luck on bute's part but bad luck on andrade's part. Since andrade got lucky enough to get a second chance, he has to finish what he started, preferably in the early rounds.

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Where do they say it?

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf

As soon as Bute's hands cleared the floor, the round (and thus the fight) were over. It says nothing about his ability to continue.

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That rule is one of the most vague in boxing. So he could just rest on his paunches & keep his hands up & he'd be up?? :cwm13:

The fight should have been stopped prior to the KD when Bute almost fell over the ropes. However, it's interesting to note the difference in timing when Andrade was 'knocked down'. If Wright had applied the same type of count, (ie fast) than Bute would have been counted out. There's a vid on youtube that shows Wright's performance throughout the fight, although I wouldn't watch if you don't want to become more disillusioned with boxing

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I don't think the rule is vague at all. He needs to rise (ie get up) and have his gloves clear the canvas. Basically, as long as he is able to stand the round will end. At that point, considering it was the 12th round, there was no need from him to be able to continue because the fight was over with the completion of the 12th round. It seems very straightforward to me.

Regarding Wright, I know he did a terrible job I don't need to see a video about it. I was watching the fight on tv (and cheering for Andrade by the way) and he let Bute do almost whatever he wanted. You can (and I did) argue that a rematch is deserved based on that alone, but Andrade absolutely did not get robbed of a victory following the knock-down, unless you dispute the speed of the count with seems a bit ridiculous to me unless it is a very glaring discrepency. One more thing, if the fight had been stopped prior to the KD, which it possibly should have been, it would have been Chavez - Taylor all over again.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by JazMerkin

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Originally Posted by CFH

Where do they say it?

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userf...ut%20Rules.pdf

As soon as Bute's hands cleared the floor, the round (and thus the fight) were over. It says nothing about his ability to continue.

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That rule is one of the most vague in boxing. So he could just rest on his paunches & keep his hands up & he'd be up?? :cwm13:

The fight should have been stopped prior to the KD when Bute almost fell over the ropes. However, it's interesting to note the difference in timing when Andrade was 'knocked down'. If Wright had applied the same type of count, (ie fast) than Bute would have been counted out. There's a vid on youtube that shows Wright's performance throughout the fight, although I wouldn't watch if you don't want to become more disillusioned with boxing

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alright, I'm interested do you have a link to the video?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPM5GVe3yc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGM6WAfosj0

What interests me the most are Wright's own words in the interview.

"Alright he's out on his feet" - Wright

"Andrade cost himself a knockout win by leaving the corner" - Wright

"Bute would not have got up on time?" - Farhood
"That's right" - Wright

Not to rehash the old argument, but I still maintain the fight should have been stopped before the knockdown, because cleary Bute was

A) Unable stand unaided

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B) Unable to defend himself


In the final round of a championship fight I can't think of a point that's more dangerous for Bute.

I hope Andrade wins this. Andrade deserved to win the first IMO, hopefully he will be a bit dirty and rough Bute up and get to him earlier this time. Bute will try to be poncy, but Andrade should just put an elbow in his eye and hack him down.

andrade will have to hope bute tires. Although he did hurt bute in the 4th or 5th round and of course the ref made sure bute was given time to recover from that.

That was worse than I remember, I was so mad about the last count I forgot how fast he counted when Andrade fell, to bad for Bute he couldn´t make it 10 in "TIME", but Marlon gave it his best shoot :o.

Thx for that vid, eventhough I am disgusted with the ref.

wonder who is going to be ref. in the rematch, mayBE we will se Marlon in disguise :disguise:

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Originally Posted by thewhale

That was worse than I remember, I was so mad about the last count I forgot how fast he counted when Andrade fell, to bad for Bute he couldn´t make it 10 in "TIME", but Marlon gave it his best shoot :o.

Thx for that vid, eventhough I am disgusted with the ref.

wonder who is going to be ref. in the rematch, mayBE we will se Marlon in disguise :disguise:

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I bet they will try to find the most "fair but firm" ref out there.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/a...50_520171a.jpg

People hate on Lucian Bute alot but the fact is, he was making Librado Andrade look stupid until he mistakenly. Brawled in the last round, which almost cost him but didn't. He got up in time 8 and a half seconds, he got up before 10 clearly. And whether or not Marlon Wright wouldn't have gone over to Librado Andrade.

It would of made no difference, because there was no time left in the round, which is what people are forgetting. The extra seconds Lucian Bute got made no difference what so ever.

Because there was no time left in the round, he went down with 3 seconds left, and by the time he got up the round was over. So all he had to do was stand up and answer the ref, which he did.

I really don't think Lucian Bute gets enough credit, for showing great heart for getting up or his boxing display over Librado Andrade, which was impressive.

He also has some good underrated wins over fighters, like Kabary Salem who floored Joe Calzaghe heavily and went 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe. Or against Sakio Bika who won The Contender, and gave Joe Calzaghe a very rough night, Lucian Bute beat him more convincingly than Joe Calzaghe.

Lucian Bute is a very good fighter and i've been saying, he is the darkhorse of the division for awhile. Lucian Bute should get alot of credit for taking this rematch, yet i don't see anyone giving him credit at all which is a damn shame.

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Originally Posted by ICB

People hate on Lucian Bute alot but the fact is, he was making Librado Andrade look stupid until he mistakenly. Brawled in the last round, which almost cost him but didn't. He got up in time 8 and a half seconds, he got up before 10 clearly. And whether or not Marlon Wright wouldn't have gone over to Librado Andrade.

It would of made no difference, because there was no time left in the round, which is what people are forgetting. The extra seconds Lucian Bute got made no difference what so ever.

Because there was no time left in the round, he went down with 3 seconds left, and by the time he got up the round was over. So all he had to do was stand up and answer the ref, which he did.

I really don't think Lucian Bute gets enough credit, for showing great heart for getting up or his boxing display over Librado Andrade, which was impressive.

He also has some good underrated wins over fighters, like Kabary Salem who floored Joe Calzaghe heavily and went 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe. Or against Sakio Bika who won The Contender, and gave Joe Calzaghe a very rough night, Lucian Bute beat him more convincingly than Joe Calzaghe.

Lucian Bute is a very good fighter and i've been saying, he is the darkhorse of the division for awhile. Lucian Bute should get alot of credit for taking this rematch, yet i don't see anyone giving him credit at all which is a damn shame.

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You bring up the same opponent list quite often (actually anytime Bute is mentioned), I really wasn't impressed with Bute's boxing in the Andrade fight, I saw an above average amount of holding to the point of being excessive. I've seen Bute look great in previous fights but he was fighting in a skilled way like John Ruiz has skill. I'm not saying he wasn't winning by a wide margin, but I'm saying I wasn't impressed with the way he was boxing IN THAT PARTICULAR FIGHT.

I do give him credit for taking the rematch although Andrade is his mandatory anyway so it's not like he has a choice if he wants to keep his belt.

I don't think Bute gets careless this time & wins a wide decision

The November 28th rematch between IBF super middeweight champion Lucian Bute (24-0, 19 KOs) and Librado Andrade (28-2, 21 KOs) has been picked up by HBO’s Boxing After Dark, marking the first time since 1977 that the network will travel north of the border to broadcast a fight from Canada. Their first encounter ended controversially with Bute out on his feet en route to a decision. No site named yet, but the bout will be held in either Montreal or Quebec City, Canada.

Bute-Andrade Update | Fightnews - Boxing News Updated 24/7

I have to say that I am somewhat disappointed that the fight is no being held in a more neutral location. However, I can understand that packing 15,000 people into the Bell Centre is had to turn your back on. Plus, as Andrade trains in Montreal, perhaps it won't be as big a disadvantage as it first appears. Montreal is a much better, and more fair, location than Quebec City though.